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Andrew
08-01-2014, 04:42 PM
Since DMCH is now offering pump / sender combo units, does anyone have a working fuel sender and/or a tank boot available that they would be willing to sell?

Thanks,

Andrew

4194
5052

NightFlyer
08-01-2014, 04:46 PM
Since DMCH is now offering pump / sender combo units, does anyone have a working fuel sender and/or a tank boot available that they would be willing to sell?

Thanks,

Andrew

4194
5052

If you don't care about having a functional low fuel warning light, then you could always use one of these as a sender (it's what Hervey sells, only without his markup):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moeller-marine-fuel-level-sending-unit-240-30ohm-19-60-long-2-50-per-inch-WVO-/161189404058?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2587a31d9a&vxp=mtr

Andrew
08-01-2014, 04:54 PM
Does Hervey's have a modification to make the low fuel light work?

NightFlyer
08-01-2014, 04:59 PM
Does Hervey's have a modification to make the low fuel light work?

Last I heard, they do NOT (unless he changed something). You could probably rig something up yourself to achieve that if so desired - it's just a basic ground-break circuit/switch if I'm not mistaken.

Andrew
08-01-2014, 05:09 PM
You are correct. I verfied the function of my light, gauge and wiring last night. The center wire is the ground, the others run the gauge and light respectively.

Josh
08-01-2014, 10:08 PM
I have a boot sitting around if I can find it ill throw it in with the boards.

Andrew
08-01-2014, 10:54 PM
Awesome! Thanks Josh!

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Andrew
08-06-2014, 04:37 PM
I did a little more research on the Moeller Marine sender. After doing so, I'm not sure it will give a proper level read on the DeLorean gauge. Most fuel level senders provide 240 ohms of resistance when empty and 33 ohms when full. Our cars gauges use an opposite setup; thus, if you drop in a 33 ohm standard sender in a Delorean with a full tank of gas the gauge will read empty. (Thus "E" will mean "enough" and 4/4 will mean you have a full tank...of air.) Moeller doesn't indicate on their website whether 33 ohms is empty or full, but since it dosen't state otherwise it's probably a reasonable hypothesis that same setup as most other standard sending units.

Tankzilla used a standard VDO sender from a Saab. The Tankzilla box contained a logic chip which would reverse the resistance. If you did a direct connect from the Tankzilla sender to the DeLorean harness you would get an opposite read on the gauge. Interestingly, I believe that the standard 240 ohm of resistance is also inaccurate for the Delorean gauge, which is the reason why many with the aftermarket senders experenced a reading at what would be 5/4 on a 4/4ths gauge with a full tank of gas.

If anyone has a working stock sending unit, it would be interesting to see how much resistance the sender reads at a full tank. I'm guessing about 190 ohms.

Without the benefit of seeing the marine unit, it's hard to say what is entailed in making it read the correct way for the Delorean gauge. It might be as simple as flipping the rod over. Of course, that would still not not address the over-full reading on the gauge with a full tank of gas.

NightFlyer
08-06-2014, 05:03 PM
I did a little more research on the Moeller Marine sender. After doing so, I'm not sure it will give a proper level read on the DeLorean gauge. Most fuel level senders provide 240 ohms of resistance when empty and 33 ohms when full. Our cars gauges use an opposite setup; thus, if you drop in a 33 ohm standard sender in a Delorean with a full tank of gas the gauge will read empty. (Thus "E" will mean "enough" and 4/4 will mean you have a full tank...of air.) Moeller doesn't indicate on their website whether 33 ohms is empty or full, but since it dosen't state otherwise it's probably a reasonable hypothesis that same setup as most other standard sending units.

Tankzilla used a standard VDO sender from a Saab. The Tankzilla box contained a logic chip which would reverse the resistance. If you did a direct connect from the Tankzilla sender to the DeLorean harness you would get an opposite read on the gauge. Interestingly, I believe that the standard 240 ohm of resistance is also inaccurate for the Delorean gauge, which is the reason why many with the aftermarket senders experenced a reading at what would be 5/4 on a 4/4ths gauge with a full tank of gas.

If anyone has a working stock sending unit, it would be interesting to see how much resistance the sender reads at a full tank. I'm guessing about 190 ohms.

Without the benefit of seeing the marine unit, it's hard to say what is entailed in making it read the correct way for the Delorean gauge. It might be as simple as flipping the rod over. Of course, that would still not not address the over-full reading on the gauge with a full tank of gas.

Good detective work here Andrew!

All I know is that Hervey has made them work in our applications. Not sure if he includes a logic box or not - might want to PM some of the guys over on Talk who are using his Moeller Marine sender to see if they can provide some insight on his solution or as to how he modifies them to read correctly.

Might be worth contacting Moeller to see if they'll send one out already set up the way that's needed to work with our gauges - all they can say is no....

Let us know what you figure out :)

2628
08-09-2014, 11:15 PM
Yes! Let us know what you find out?

2628
08-10-2014, 09:15 AM
What about this one? Will it work?
What is the Max length it needs to be?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marine-Boat-Electric-Universal-Fuel-Tank-Sending-Unit-9-Deep-Gas-Tank-Reed-Type/191203994420?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D8934890580373195852 %26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20131003132420%26rk%3D3%26 rkt%3D6%26sd%3D161189404058&rt=nc

2628
08-10-2014, 09:21 AM
Long Shot here! What about even this one?

http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Fuel-Tank-Universal-Sending-Unit/product/12081405324136/?hvarAID=shopping_shoppingdotcom#desc-tab

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 10:10 AM
You'd have to modify both to work properly with our existing mounting setup, and in order to work with our dash gauge, you'd still have to reverse the signal somehow by either physically altering the resistance path of the float or using an external logic box to do so electronically.

Like Andrew previously said, it could be as simple as reversing how the shaft is attached to the mounting flange, or it could be more difficult requiring that you build a logic box. I really can't say for sure, as I haven't done much research into the matter.

Whatever the solution may be, you still wouldn't have the function of the low fuel warning light without additional modification.

I'm actually kind of surprised that no one other than Hervey has figured out a relatively simple solution yet to the fuel sender issue, or at least no one that has come forward and shared such a solution with the community anyway.

2628
08-10-2014, 10:35 AM
Isn't it possible that the Moeller Marine sender actually does work.
And Hervey is just grinding off/covering up the part numbers and info as usual?

But it does state this on the Ebay Auction itself:

Custom settings are available at extra charge for ranges other than 240-30 ohms
Although normal range is 240-30 other ohm range options available

0-30 Ohms (GM Type '64 and earlier)
0-90 Ohms (GM Type '66 and later)
75-10 Ohms (Ford Type '86 and earlier)
16-158 Ohms (Ford Type '87 and later)
90-0 Ohms (Toyota and Nissan '85 and later)
240-30 Ohms (Standard Aftermarket)

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 10:48 AM
Isn't it possible that the Moeller Marine sender actually does work.
And Hervey is just grinding off/covering up the part numbers and info as usual?

It's very possible.

You could always buy one and experiment :D

2628
08-10-2014, 10:50 AM
It's very possible.

You could always buy one and experiment :D


I might try it?

I am getting tired of always fooling with my stock unit.
It gives me a general idea of what's in the tank.
But i have it held together with Paperclips and Bubblegum.

2628
08-10-2014, 10:59 AM
They Def look the Same.


27692770

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 11:00 AM
I might try it?

I am getting tired of always fooling with my stock unit.
It gives me a general idea of what's in the tank.
But i have it held together with Paperclips and Bubblegum.

The only difference I see between the Moeller Marine unit and Hervey's unit is something on the bottom of the shaft that looks like a rubber band. As there's no logic box present in his picture, I'm guessing that whatever you have to do to make it work properly with our gauge isn't very difficult to do once you get it figured out.

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/delorean-fuel-sending-unit-.jpg

2628
08-10-2014, 11:03 AM
Rubber Band might just be to hold the wires down in the pic?

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 11:33 AM
I noticed this on the eBay listing's questions section on the bottom:

"To be certain, an easy way to test is to disconnect your sending unit. If gauge reads empty you have a 240-30 ohm gauge. If gauge goes up to full then you have either a 0-180ohm or 0-90 ohm gauge.."

I'm pretty sure that if you disconnect the sender, the gauge will default to full, thus it does use an inverse operation ohm range. John is probably just using a 0-180ohm unit and adding a resister to the wiring or something like that.

Dave M could probably provide us with some more insight... :)

2628
08-10-2014, 11:53 AM
Dave M could probably provide us with some more insight... :)

I hope he can?
If we can figure it out?
I will buy one.
I could really care less about the low fuel light.
I always fill up before empty anyway.

Thanks NightFlyer

BTW what length sender would you need?
8 1/2 or 9 ??

Bitsyncmaster
08-10-2014, 12:39 PM
I noticed this on the eBay listing's questions section on the bottom:

"To be certain, an easy way to test is to disconnect your sending unit. If gauge reads empty you have a 240-30 ohm gauge. If gauge goes up to full then you have either a 0-180ohm or 0-90 ohm gauge.."

I'm pretty sure that if you disconnect the sender, the gauge will default to full, thus it does use an inverse operation ohm range. John is probably just using a 0-180ohm unit and adding a resister to the wiring or something like that.

Dave M could probably provide us with some more insight... :)

Not much help with this because I have the Zilla unit and it is completely different than stock. All you need to do is have someone with a stock sender use an ohm meter to read the resistance with it vertical and inverted when the sender is out of the car. I seem to remember my Zilla sender was less than 100 ohms.

Dracula
08-10-2014, 01:02 PM
I have an old DMC fuel pump and sender; pre-integrated unit, that has around 10k miles on it and worked flawlessly. Let me see if I can find it.

2628
08-10-2014, 01:33 PM
I have an old DMC fuel pump and sender; pre-integrated unit, that has around 10k miles on it and worked flawlessly. Let me see if I can find it.

That would be great!
Thanks!

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 02:07 PM
I seem to remember my Zilla sender was less than 100 ohms.

That's interesting - so John could possibly be using an unaltered 0-90 ohm ranged unit.

I'll dig out my stock unit and test it, and report back what I find.

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 02:43 PM
I'll dig out my stock unit and test it, and report back what I find.

OK - maybe not. The float completely fell off the unit and took half the ground wire with it. As I don't really have time to monkey around with it right now, that experiment is on an indefinite hold.

Perhaps someone else with a decent stock unit could test theirs and let us know the resistance range of the stock units :)

stevedmc
08-10-2014, 06:54 PM
The Hervey fuel sender is crap but is better than nothing. Ask Drew.

2628
08-10-2014, 07:23 PM
The Hervey fuel sender is crap but is better than nothing. Ask Drew.

I am sure it is better than the 34 year old piece of junk in my tank.
I probably would be better off raising the hood and putting a stick in my tank,
To see how much gas i have? Lol.

Not alot of options? Unless i want that $$$ DMC Combo unit?

Drewlorean
08-10-2014, 07:43 PM
The Hervey fuel sender is cap but is better than nothing. Ask Drew.

Hervey's unit comes with holes in the thing, at no extra cost! Nothing like filling up and gasoline pouring all over the place.

If you take the time to fill in the holes, and make your own rubber seal, it works fine. I'm happy with it (now).

NightFlyer
08-10-2014, 08:52 PM
Hervey's unit comes with holes in the thing, at no extra cost! Nothing like filling up and gasoline pouring all over the place.

If you take the time to fill in the holes, and make your own rubber seal, it works fine. I'm happy with it (now).

So the cork gasket that comes with it, even if you orient it such so that the holes in the gasket are opposite to the holes in sender's flange, it still leaks without filling in the holes - is that right?

Would just the rubber gasket have worked to prevent fuel leakage, or must the holes in the flange be filled (no other way)?

Dracula
08-17-2014, 07:54 PM
I just found my fuel pump sender. What did you need from it?

Boglin
09-13-2015, 08:13 AM
I just found my fuel pump sender. What did you need from it?

Chad any chance you can grab the full & empty resistances of your stock sender?

Boglin
09-23-2015, 06:02 PM
Welp I purchased the Moeller sender from eBay. The stainless "disc" on top is too large to fit underneath the plastic fuel tank nut. I'm going to have to try to file down the diameter.

DPI JOSH
09-23-2015, 07:50 PM
0-99 ohms

Boglin
09-23-2015, 08:06 PM
99 and not 90? No one sells a 0 to 99.

DPI JOSH
09-23-2015, 08:14 PM
sorry. my club thumbs got in the way. yes 0-90

Dracula
09-23-2015, 08:15 PM
Sorry I haven't had a chance to measure my unit; my car is still in the shop.

I'll be messaging you about those coilovers soon, though. I want to get that done in the next few months.

Bitsyncmaster
09-24-2015, 04:03 AM
My schematic shows a "180" printed near the fuel sender. I wonder if that was what someone read as ohms. I will have to buy a used fuel gauge someday and measure what currents make it read at each 1/4 mark. It would not be hard to use a micro to convert any sender value to any gauge value and do the appropriate filtering.

Dracula
09-24-2015, 09:09 AM
I have a few spare fuel gauges if you'd like to fiddle with one.

Bitsyncmaster
09-24-2015, 09:38 AM
I have a few spare fuel gauges if you'd like to fiddle with one.

PM me your price for one and your PayPal address.

Boglin
09-24-2015, 09:51 AM
Dave,

Consider that a micro will require constant power to show the fuel level. I don't particularly like this artifact of the DMCH fuel pump logic box; the fuel level registers only when the car is running (and fuel pump has +12V).

Bitsyncmaster
09-28-2015, 02:27 PM
Got the gauge from Chad. Boy that gauge is heavy damped (in that the pointerl moves very slow). I wonder if it's the same in my car. Anyway, it looks like it's setup as a bridge circuit. That is good so the accuracy is little affected by the 12 volt value. But that means you can not just drive the "sender" pin with a current to move the gauge.

FYI: the gauge reads full (centered on the 4/4 mark) with 83 ohms to ground on the sender pin. I did that test at 14 volts but as I said, very little change with 12 volts. Zero ohms moves it to empty.

Boglin
09-28-2015, 02:29 PM
Awesome Dave!

Bitsyncmaster
09-28-2015, 02:36 PM
Dave,

Consider that a micro will require constant power to show the fuel level. I don't particularly like this artifact of the DMCH fuel pump logic box; the fuel level registers only when the car is running (and fuel pump has +12V).

You would need to get the 12 volt power used on the gauge to power the micro to have them shut down at the same time so the gauge stays at the correct reading.

Bitsyncmaster
09-28-2015, 02:53 PM
Now you got me thinking. I have the tankzilla unit and it reads correct when the key is turned to on. It drops almost to zero when I turn the key to off. So how did the Zilla unit get voltage? It does not shut down to keep accurate when I turn the key off and the needle moves very quickly. That is why I thought maybe my gauge is not damped.

Bitsyncmaster
09-29-2015, 04:30 AM
I don't plan to open the gauge up since that would require I pull the needle off the gauge and upset the calibration. But looking at info on the internet, I'm guessing the fuel gauge has two electro magnets. One is powered when the key is turned on and it pulls the needle to full if the sender coil is not powered. The sender coil counteracts the other coil to pull the gauge toward empty.

This gauge takes a lot of power (current) to run. But I see why they did it that way. The two coils running from the same 12 volt power would follow each other if the power was a different voltage.

The sender current is 90 ma. at "FULL" and 320 ma. at "EMPTY". I would think that kind of current in the sender would be a fire hazard (could create a spark). I guess that is why the sender is encased in an aluminum tube.