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Dracula
03-08-2014, 11:05 PM
After talking to him about Fieros, I missed mine so badly that I had to buy another because they cost so little that the difference in filling up my '72 Eldorado over the course of the summer will offset the little bit of my moving fund I spent on this car.

It's a 1984 4-Cyl AT with over 170 KILOMETERS.

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Boglin
03-08-2014, 11:23 PM
Shit Chad, Ive been watching for a nice Fiero for months. I want it for a city car. If i cant find one soon i may end up wifh a SamHilllmobile. Smaller is better when it comes to going out in the city.

Dracula
03-08-2014, 11:27 PM
It will also fill the void in my life left by the DeLorean; sans the periodic breakdowns.

Duplicate Account
03-08-2014, 11:39 PM
In 1990 I got my first car: a completely abused 1984 Fiero automatic (only 4 cyl. Iron duke available that year). It was horrible. A few years later I got an '85, still a.4 banger, but this time a manual. The transmission made all the difference, and it also had no overheating problems. It was a pretty good car.

Of course, it still doesn't compare to a miata. Not even on the same level.

Dracula
03-08-2014, 11:49 PM
In 1990 I got my first car: a completely abused 1984 Fiero automatic (only 4 cyl. Iron duke available that year). It was horrible. A few years later I got an '85, still a.4 banger, but this time a manual. The transmission made all the difference, and it also had no overheating problems. It was a pretty good car.

Of course, it still doesn't compare to a miata. Not even on the same level.

I've had the opposite experience; my 4-speed always had strange issues with the fuel system; even after replacing every single component. This one seems to have been cared for all its life and I think that will make all the difference.

NightFlyer
03-08-2014, 11:56 PM
That darn Louis! (insert nut kick emoticon here)

J/K :)

Nice ride Chad - congrats!

Dracula
03-09-2014, 12:02 AM
That darn Louis! (insert nut kick emoticon here)

J/K :)

Nice ride Chad - congrats!

Thank you. Incidentally, this may prove to be my transportation to DCS.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 12:07 AM
I've got the same engine in my AMC, to be replaced with a V8 in the foreseeable future. I have no idea what to do with the old block once it is removed. Runs like a champ -- just too small for such a heavy vehicle (nearly 3,000 lbs). If you ever need it, give me a shout.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 12:12 AM
I've got the same engine in my AMC, to be replaced with a V8 in the foreseeable future. I have no idea what to do with the old block once it is removed. Runs like a champ -- just too small for such a heavy vehicle (nearly 3,000 lbs). If you ever need it, give me a shout.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Do you want to sell the intake setup? Then I can replace the EFI that's in it with a carb.

Duplicate Account
03-09-2014, 12:13 AM
I've had the opposite experience; my 4-speed always had strange issues with the fuel system; even after replacing every single component. This one seems to have been cared for all its life and I think that will make all the difference.


Especially in 80s GM products, I subscribe to the "made on a Wednesday" theory..

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 12:21 AM
Do you want to sell the intake setup? Then I can replace the EFI that's in it with a carb.

EFI? Wow -- I'm running a Rochester E2SE. Electric choke cap burned out in the early 1990's (pre-Internet), so I've been running a manual choke cable ever since (parts houses wanted too much for a replacement cap -- pre-Autozone too). Otherwise it's given me absolutely no trouble whatsoever.

Absolute earliest I could do the V8 conversion would be September (need to get the car inspected with the 4 cylinder still in place, no more than 90 days before its December renewal -- this will be its last inspection).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 12:29 AM
Technically, it's a computer-controlled throttle body; which, if the manual can call "electronic throttle body fuel injection," I can call EFI. I feel that to be accurate, too, given that it's controlled by a VERY RUDIMENTARY computer. That's the first thing I want to remove.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 12:42 AM
Do they use distributed spark ignition or coil packs? I've got old fashioned GM HEI (module and coil attached to the distributor cap). Super easy to wire up: only two wires (12v and ground).

I've also got a set of custom made MSD spiral core plug wires.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 12:47 AM
It's a distributor; though, I'd rather it be a little more old-fashioned instead of tied to the computer.

I love the idea of retrofitting it with AMC components.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 08:48 AM
Components aren't AMC -- the whole engine was purchased as an assembled unit from General Motors. AMC didn't make its own 4 cylinder engine until 1984 (a truncated version of its anvil tough 258 -- a very good little block that actually specs better than the Iron Duke).

Everything under my hood is completely identical to a Monza or a Sunbird.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Boo
03-09-2014, 09:47 AM
It will also fill the void in my life left by the DeLorean; sans the periodic breakdowns.
I sure don't mind being blamed for something like this!
Chad, my "Blue" has 206,200 miles on her. And feel free to air any concerns or 'breakdowns' on fiero.nl the pennocks fiero forum, the link to the forum will be on the left side about half way down the list of links. There is also real fiero tech.com but that site is for engine swaps and has people on it I can compare to the attitudes on the talk site. Interior looks nice from what i can see in the photo. I'm a GT notchback kind of guy. My "Blue" cost me $1300 (plus a car trailer rental and a trip to Jersey). I've already accumulated a few hundred dollars in parts to put into her though, like the factory subwoofer, in which I am upgrading the sub to a tang-band speaker,(thread I saw on the fiero forum) a new 'stock-ish' head unit that was modified to accept a headphones aux jack(bought from the fiero forum). Tune up parts too, wires cap rotor plugs,(rock auto) new IAC (ebay) and tailights that arent cracked like mine are (ebay)to name some stuff I can think of offhand.
I'd post another picture of Blue, but I think you've flipped enough pictures for me already. I do have pics of the interior, which, along with the price and Blue paint job, basically sold me the car. I had absolutely no bargaining edge when I went to look at it. I wasn't gonna go to jersey, look at it and then take another trip with a trailer so I went to look at it with the trailer. I actually negotiated the price down from $1800 via email with the seller days before I went to buy the car.

Rich_NYS
03-09-2014, 10:15 AM
After talking to him about Fieros, I missed mine so badly that I had to buy another because they cost so little that the difference in filling up my '72 Eldorado over the course of the summer will offset the little bit of my moving fund I spent on this car.

It's a 1984 4-Cyl AT with over 170 KILOMETERS.


Nice....congrats on your purchase.

There's a silver Fiero for sale on the main street of the town where I live. This winter it was completely encased in a snowbank, I should've taken a pic then & now. I think now that the snow is melting it's half-visible, if I remember to take a pic I'll post it.

Boo
03-09-2014, 10:45 AM
Instead of the continuous editing and adding to my previous post, that people may not read because they don't know it was added on To, but it was.
Brakes and clutch were good during the around the block test drive and since. Blue's clutch is actually very strong. The metal brake lines looked very rusted once I got her home, where the spiral metal around the lines was pitted into the actual metal line. So I bought a full set of pre-bent metal brake lines from fierostore.com for $170, but have yet to install them. I also bought a full set of brake pads for her. SUMMER BABY ! SUMMER!

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 11:44 AM
That spiral winding is how they bend brake lines on the assembly line without a tubing bender. Speeds up the assembly process, but wreaks all kinds of havoc for end users down the road (windings trap road salt, mud, etc and cause the brake lines to rust through prematurely).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 02:55 PM
I've always been pleased with how cheap Fieros are to fix and maintain. I've presently got mine at a friend's house so he can check on a few things while I go pick up my Cadillac.

I was specifically looking for a later-model 6-Cyl. AT example, but this car, while only having the AT that I wanted, has BEAUTIFUL interior; featuring leather seats with the headrest-integrated speakers.

It also has nearly every single option; including the engine block heater. Though, the only one I cared about was the sun roof.

For long-term feasibility, I want to carburate the engine or upgrade it to a V6 and then carb said V6 and upgrade it to a good, old-fashioned distributor. I fear that the computers will, eventually, become a weak point and difficult to source a replacement for. Plus, computer-controlled cars have never really been my style. For the moment, though, the 4-Cyl seems to have enough pep to satiate my needs out of a commuter car.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 03:05 PM
As stated, my Iron Duke's ignition is all self contained within the distributor itself. Only two wires connect it to the rest of the vehicle: power supply and ground. That's how GM did HEI in the early days. Unless GM did something weird with later camshaft interfaces, my distributor can drop into your car and work normally with just those two wires and ported vacuum advance. Same for the carburetor: only one 12v wire for the choke heater (or no wire whatsoever in my case...). Ported vacuum of course comes from the carb itself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Boo
03-09-2014, 03:13 PM
Blue's interior ... White leather with headrest speakers, although in each headrest only the outer speaker seems to work, and they are a ba*tard to replace. Picture might be upside down, consider this your warning. LOL[ATTACH=CONFIG]1462[/ATTACH
Dang, I held the iPhone upright the whole time too!

Rich_NYS
03-09-2014, 03:17 PM
Nice....congrats on your purchase.

There's a silver Fiero for sale on the main street of the town where I live. This winter it was completely encased in a snowbank, I should've taken a pic then & now. I think now that the snow is melting it's half-visible, if I remember to take a pic I'll post it.

Here are the pics:

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The price in the window is 3500 or trade.

Coincidentally, this similar-color-to-Chad's-Fiero was across the street so I took a few pics as it left. Dude must not mind rotting his frame....the wet road is total brine. That car was likely white w/salt by the time he got home.

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Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 03:18 PM
If you are serious about carbureting your Fiero, there's no need to wait for me to upgrade my AMC -- I can source the manifold & carb and either mail them down or combine a trip to Houston with a trip to Baton Rouge/New Orleans.

First & foremost: look at your distributor cap. If it has the coil/ECU sitting on top, and only two harness connector wires, all you need is a decent set of plug wires (ie: MSD) -- EFI electronics in that case have absolutely nothing to do with ignition.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Boo
03-09-2014, 03:18 PM
I drove Boo about 60 some odd miles in the Long Island 'brine' yesterday.

Boglin
03-09-2014, 03:21 PM
Damn and thats not a cheap f car. I think they have aluminum frames, so salt wont hurt it as much. I actually really like that car and this one too :)http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/sezyha3a.jpg

Rich_NYS
03-09-2014, 03:28 PM
I drove Boo about 60 some odd miles in the Long Island 'brine' yesterday.

Mine will stay off the roads until after the first heavy rain....

Rich_NYS
03-09-2014, 03:29 PM
Damn and thats not a cheap f car. I think they have aluminum frames, so salt wont hurt it as much. I actually really like that car and this one too :)

Ahhh....I didn't know that (or anything else about the car.) That might explain why he has no worries.

NightFlyer
03-09-2014, 03:33 PM
I always admired the headrest speakers, but wondered if they would prevent you from comfortably turning up the stereo very loud.

I love seeing people driving their exotic on salted roads. I heard that due to rock salt shortages, they were using liquified brine solutions on upstate roads, which is even worse for rotting out cars than the rock salt is. Definitely not something I'd drive on in something that I wanted to stay nice for decades.

You're also lucky that you've got that much melt already - unfortunately, it's not that warm here yet. In fact, more snow for us next week :(

Boo
03-09-2014, 03:45 PM
Even the salt air is corroding the aluminum of my peugot intake manifold and my 2100 carb. It's got white chalky corrosion all over it! It was my Delorean (Boo) that I drove yesterday. Oh, and the fiero speakers in the headrest are proportioned to be not as loud as the dash speakers . At least that's what it seems like when I play the radio. They sure dont blast your ears out. Maybe that's because only one in each headrest seems to be operating in my car Blue.

Boo
03-09-2014, 03:46 PM
Frame rot... No biggie... "Simply cut and weld additional sections" <- Dave Delman quote. :)

Dracula
03-09-2014, 04:17 PM
As stated, my Iron Duke's ignition is all self contained within the distributor itself. Only two wires connect it to the rest of the vehicle: power supply and ground. That's how GM did HEI in the early days. Unless GM did something weird with later camshaft interfaces, my distributor can drop into your car and work normally with just those two wires and ported vacuum advance. Same for the carburetor: only one 12v wire for the choke heater (or no wire whatsoever in my case...). Ported vacuum of course comes from the carb itself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

That's exactly what I want. I want the wiring to go as follows: Battery->Fuse Box->Ignition Switch->Engine or, possibly inverting ignition switch and fuse box.

Here are the pics:

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The price in the window is 3500 or trade.

Coincidentally, this similar-color-to-Chad's-Fiero was across the street so I took a few pics as it left. Dude must not mind rotting his frame....the wet road is total brine. That car was likely white w/salt by the time he got home.

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There's no way that car is worth $3,500. I'd estimate it's a $1,500 car at most.


If you are serious about carbureting your Fiero, there's no need to wait for me to upgrade my AMC -- I can source the manifold & carb and either mail them down or combine a trip to Houston with a trip to Baton Rouge/New Orleans.

First & foremost: look at your distributor cap. If it has the coil/ECU sitting on top, and only two harness connector wires, all you need is a decent set of plug wires (ie: MSD) -- EFI electronics in that case have absolutely nothing to do with ignition.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bill, that would be great. I'd be happy to pay you for shipping, the parts, and something extra for your time. Though, I'd love to see you in Houston and would gladly provide you with a room at the very least.

Unfortunately, the ECU is located behind the center arm rest and not a part of the distributor, so that will need to go as well.

Dracula
03-09-2014, 04:18 PM
Frame rot... No biggie... "Simply cut and weld additional sections" <- DeLorean Workshop Manual quote. :)

Fixed that for you.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 04:22 PM
Fortunately, the ECU is located behind the center arm rest and not a part of the distributor, so that will need to go as well.

Fixed it for you.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 04:31 PM
Fixed it for you.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I like your perspective better.

Boo
03-09-2014, 04:53 PM
Fixed that for you.

Wow is that really on the workshop manual? I have one but never did read it, let alone commit it to memory.
Cool, but I heard it from Dave and to me it's still his quote. Not to imply the workshop manual isn't crazy like that!
:)

Boo
03-09-2014, 04:59 PM
I'm trying to keep Blue stock. I know that's backwards, keeping the Fiero stock and altering the Delorean. If I ever do a 3800 supercharged engine swap that'll be the end of stock Blue. I know a guy who has a 3800 SC and computer in Tennessee he would sell me for $200 but ill need the harness which sells for $500 on the Fiero forum, plus the drive to Tennessee to pick it up. Summer? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. Plus even though it bolts right to the tranny , it'll need custom mounts and changes to the starter location and alternator and seems like more than I can do without a garage. I'm holding off for now, but he said I was the only one who expressed interest in it so, in a sense, he's holding it for me. That is,of course, until someone else buys it first.

Dracula
03-09-2014, 05:16 PM
That was a joke on David T's passion for quoting manuals verbatim.

Boo
03-09-2014, 05:17 PM
That was a joke on David T's passion for quoting manuals verbatim.

You mean like my avatar "Delorean Boo-Boo"? David T's is "Delorean Guru". But I am the exact opposite of that. It really wasn't meant to cut him down, just to give perspective to my actual Delorean knowledge, which is growing by the way.
But honestly, is it really in the manual?

Dracula
03-09-2014, 06:47 PM
I think so, in reference to the crumple extension.

Dracula
03-09-2014, 06:54 PM
Bill, what year and model is your car with the 2.5?

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 07:05 PM
1981 Spirit.

AMC sourced a 121 inch Audi 4 for 1979, then switched to the Pontiac plant for '80-'83. AMC's own 4 cylinder debuted in 1984.

This was all precipitated by the second fuel crisis. The Gremlin/Hornet/Spirit/Concord platform was designed around AMC's exceptional inline 6. Shoving a 4 cylinder under the hood appeased panicked consumers, but the cars really are too heavy for such a small engine. If my father (from whom I bought the car -- this is the same car I drove in high school) had only purchased a proper 6 cylinder, which was an option thank you very much, none of this would be necessary.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 07:19 PM
I would be honored to use the parts from your father's car on a vehicle where the engine size is adequate.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 07:37 PM
Where were you last month? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-2-5-Liter-Tech-4-Intake-Manifold-151-Iron-Duke-Inlet-Pontiac-Olds-Chevrolet-/181295290276

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-09-2014, 07:56 PM
I didn't own a car that it would fit at that point. If I bought parts on SPECULATION of owning a car, I'd have no space left.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-09-2014, 08:01 PM
Where's my brain?

You have an intake manifold already. All you need is an adapter plate to mate your TBI hole to whichever carburetor you choose.

I can make adapter plates all day long. All I need is a pencil rubbing of your intake manifold and whichever carburetor's baseplate gasket.

Start researching carbs and we can take it from there. I'm running a Rochester E2SE, also known as the Varijet. Jeff Dickey is partial to the older Rochester 2G series. You might have luck with a small bore Weber (32?). Autolite 2100 with .98 inch throttle bores also specs out OK (190 CFM).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-10-2014, 12:32 AM
Bill,

Will this carb do?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121142999994?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 10:33 AM
Correction: may carb is a 2SE, not an E2SE -- difference is absence of an electrically operated enrichment gizmo that my friend calls a "swizzle stick" (very late model Rochester engineering).

You may want to bring Jeff Dickey's input into your decision. He's a lot more familiar with Rochester carbs than I am.

To be brutally honest I am very unfamiliar with my AMC's carb. Other than converting it to a manually operated choke, I have done absolutely nothing to it in the past 33 years. Guess that is prima facie evidence of its durability and reliability. All the adjustment screws are covered with tamper proof caps (as are the adjustment screws in that eBay auction), so I'm still running with GM's original tune.

Just skimmed the writeup in my AMC factory literature -- looks like typical Rochester engineering: quite elaborate, but yields excellent performance (engine displacement permitting...). Kind of like a Quadrajet -- best carburetor ever built until something goes wrong.

Autolite had a totally different engineering philosophy (simple and adequate), so it's only natural I gravitate towards them. If you are naturally inclined towards Rochesters, as many people are, then this carb may be a good choice. Again, I'd ask Jeff Dickey for his opinion.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-10-2014, 01:29 PM
I've done my research and I've decided that, for two very good reasons, the Autolite will be the best for my goals.

Reason 1: The Autolite, while a tad more rudimentary, allows for manual adjustment. I want to be able to fine-tune it to my application and for optimal fuel economy.

Reason 2: If I want to swap out the 4-Cyl with a V6, then I can adapt the Autolite to the 6 as well with greater ease.

I'll be ordering one in the next few days.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 01:51 PM
See if you can get one with .98 inch venturis. Definitely wouldn't go any larger than 1.01 or 1.02". Either way you're looking at original design Autolites, not later revision Motorcrafts (Motorcrafts were never manufactured less than 1.08"). Core carburetor is identical and most parts interchange between them, but there are some nuanced differences. I'm running Autolite 4100's on both my school buses and one of my Lincolns because the 4100 did not survive the Motorcraft redesign.

Ford kind of backed themselves into a corner when they ditched the smaller bore 2100's. Everything smaller than 171 cubic inches had to get a Holley or a Weber.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-10-2014, 02:04 PM
This is the cheapest one I can find online.

If this will be adaptable, I'll bid on it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310893366215?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 02:22 PM
According to online CFM calculators it should be a good fit (guessing at volumetric efficiency). Notice how much smaller the throttle plates are than a 1.08:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/RH8AAOxy3NBSkkHg/$_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5OFgxNjAw/z/djIAAMXQEgpTBedx/$_57.JPG

I am happy to make an adapter plate. I know the 2100 footprint by heart of course. What I'd need from you is a pencil rubbing of your TBI mounting pad (like a tombstone rubbing) to locate the central venturi and the mounting holes. I'd also need to know size & thread of the TBI hold down holes -- I likely would drill socket head recesses into the adapter to mount it.

One last thing: how does your throttle cable run? Notice on my trucks when I adapted 2100's I rotated them 90 degrees:

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Primary reason I did that was for the throttle cable (also makes it easier to run fuel supply, and keeps el'fake'o EGR away from adjustment screws and other important bits).

I may need some detail pictures of your engine compartment, not only for the throttle cable, but also to scope out vacuums lines.

Speaking of which: Autolites don't have ported vacuum barbs -- they have ported vacuum flare fittings. I retap mine for a NPT barb, but in your case I would probably send a barb to flare adapter. Same for the fuel inlet -- it's a flare fitting on Autolites but 1/8 NPT on Motorcrafts.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-10-2014, 03:00 PM
Now all I need to do is get a good cross-reference distributor for the 2.5L Pontiac I-4.

I'll get pictures and the rubbing after I get back from Texas; I have a flight out of Milwaukee at 6:00 tomorrow morning, so I'm wrapping up nearly all the business I can prior to leaving.

The throttle cable runs down towards the TBI intake, at the moment, but, I imagine, that there will be enough play with it for any relocation that may be required.

I intend to drive the car to DCS, so I can show you the current setup in person then.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 03:13 PM
Give me enough info to make an adapter ahead of time and we can do your carb conversion at DCS....

What is wrong with the distributor currently on the engine? If it only has two harness connector wires, it is in its own little world and couldn't care less what fuel delivery is up to (or anything else on the car for that matter -- just connection to the battery).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-10-2014, 03:28 PM
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This is the same as the current distributor. Presently, it communicates with the ECM and, as such, a replacement needs to be sourced.

What about the fuel pump? Will I have to replace it because it has a return line or can I leave the stock one?

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 04:19 PM
1) Ring out that two wire harness connector. See if it's switched 12v and ground.

2) Leave the multiwire connector disconnected, put a timing light on one of the plug wires, then crank the engine. If it flashes your distributor is fine -- it's just sending additional signals to the TBI ECU.

One thing I don't see is a vacuum advance diaphragm. Mine has got one hanging off the side for ported vacuum.

You'll either need a low pressure fuel pump or a regulator for your high pressure pump (I have a fuel pressure gauge for setting a regulator). Return line would of course be plugged off.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 04:27 PM
Correction: my distributor has three harness connector wires: 12v switched, ground, and the dashboard tach signal.

Your dash tach may be driven by the ECU. In that case easiest thing to do would be to leave the ECU in the car.

Unplug the TBI injector, put a timing light on a plug wire, and crank the engine. If it flashes you can leave the ECU connected to the distributor and continue with the conversion. You can actually run the engine with repeated squirts of starting fluid if you'd like to emulate what a carb would run like.

Your dash "Check Engine" bulb might need to be removed.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
03-10-2014, 04:44 PM
Since my car is an automatic, the tach isn't necessary in the event that there's an issue with the ECU.

I'll get started fiddling with it as soon as I get back; I'm very excited by the prospect of carbing this car. That should hold me over until I get around to swapping out the 390 in my '59 Cadillac.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
03-10-2014, 07:10 PM
An automatic transmission on a 151? Oh my -- we may need to jump straight to the 6 cylinder conversion.

Try unplugging the TBI injector and running your engine on repeated squirts of starting fluid. That is the quickest way to see if just the carb alone will work.

Bill Robertson
#5939