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Patrick C
09-22-2013, 01:51 PM
It appears that a 3.0 swap car caught on fire today from what I found on Instagram. A very sad sight...does anyone know who owns it?

http://distilleryimage7.s3.amazonaws.com/ccdd822c238f11e389b122000a9f18c4_7.jpg

http://statigr.am/p/550616534226051607_345075007

Dracula
09-22-2013, 02:01 PM
It belongs to an individual named Darryl in PA. Nobody was hurt, other than the car.

Patrick C
09-22-2013, 02:04 PM
It belongs to an individual named Darryl in PA. Nobody was hurt, other than the car.

I'm glad to hear everyone is ok. Any ideas on what started it? Leaking fuel line?

Josh
09-22-2013, 02:04 PM
Ouch! Hits closer to home being a 3.0...

Wonder what started the fire.

Duplicate Account
09-22-2013, 03:05 PM
Ugh. Terrible sight. I wish luck to the owner getting back on the road.

stevedmc
09-22-2013, 04:38 PM
Wow that does suck. At least the binnacle appears to still be in good shape.

NightFlyer
09-22-2013, 06:06 PM
How horrible - but glad that everyone is OK.

Did putting out the fire necessitate busting out the back window and quarter panel glass, as it appears was done in the picture?

Sympathies to the owner and best of luck in salvaging the car and getting her back on the road soon.

Patrick C
09-22-2013, 09:16 PM
How horrible - but glad that everyone is OK.

Did putting out the fire necessitate busting out the back window and quarter panel glass, as it appears was done in the picture?


The glass probably shattered from the intense heat. Hell, the fascia, engine cover, and louvres melted away.

Duplicate Account
09-22-2013, 09:36 PM
The glass probably shattered from the intense heat. Hell, the fascia, engine cover, and louvres melted away.

Which reminds me. Instead of carrying a kitchen fire extinguisher, I should probably upgrade and carry a long pole to lift up the engine cover.

I don't have high pressure in my fuel lines, but I still don't trust these crappy plastic cars.

NightFlyer
09-22-2013, 09:37 PM
The glass probably shattered from the intense heat. Hell, the fascia, engine cover, and louvres melted away.

Good point.

dvonk
09-22-2013, 11:17 PM
man, that blows. i hate seeing photos like that. frankly, im a bit surprised the torsion bars withstood the heat.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-23-2013, 09:37 AM
Even though this car was megasquirted, K-Jet fuel lines just came up in conversation about it. The Renault block that came in my car when I first bought it had metal fuel lines in the engine compartment (injectors, CPR, cold start, etc). It had banjo bolts at the fuel distributor and CPR, but everything else was flare fitting.

It wouldn't be difficult at all to make flare adapters for the CPR and fuel distributor. A K-Jetter could have 100% metal fuel lines with flare fittings if he so desired (injectors would need to be Renault).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar
09-23-2013, 11:06 AM
My car would have looked like that if I hadn't had a fire extinguisher in the car when I saw black smoke in my rear-view mirror.

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 11:10 AM
I'm wondering if the whole failing fuel line thing is caused by a a failure of the rubber/plastic/nylon lines (like a crack, split, pinhole, etc), or if it's more to do with the way the banjo fittings are thermo-coupled to the lines and such adhesion/bond loosens over time and the pressure eventually shoots the hose off the fitting? If a vast majority of these problems are the latter happening, then the solution is simply tight fuel line grade hose clamps on all the banjo fittings.

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 11:16 AM
Thirty year old fuel lines can kill you if they are brittle/soft. I wouldn't trust a clamp. I would replace my fuel lines if they were original.

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 11:20 AM
There was a lot going on with 5898, apparently. I'll PM a link. Get it while it lasts.

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 11:27 AM
Ah. Now the PM makes sense. I thought it was just a lets bash a certain vendor email. lol

I suppose we can make a copy of it somehow and leave it here for the world to see before it disappears/changes on Talk.

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 11:32 AM
To his credit, he did declare the car unsafe...

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 11:35 AM
Yes, please share - I'm wondering what the big secret is :)

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 11:46 AM
OK, so aside from the link I sent, I think I should bring up something else that should be important to every Delorean owner: a good cat.

My parents cat does his job well, killing a few mice every couple of weeks. This is important when it comes to keeping mice off the old wires that they love so much.

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 11:48 AM
Here is a copy of the thread from Talk. I'm posting it here as a PDF copy should the thread suddenly disappear over there.

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 11:49 AM
OK, so aside from the link I sent, I think I should bring up something else that should be important to every Delorean owner: a good cat.

My parents cat does his job well, killing a few mice every couple of weeks. This is important when it comes to keeping mice off the old wires that they love so much.

My cat just caught a vole a few days ago :cool:

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 12:05 PM
I'm no genius but it looks like the guy brought Josh Bengston a basketcase Delorean. Josh found lots of problems, the guy couldn't afford to pay, and then things got nasty. It looks like Josh Bengston was right when he said this car would not be safe to drive.

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 12:15 PM
I'm no genius but it looks like the guy brought Josh Bengston a basketcase Delorean. Josh found lots of problems, the guy couldn't afford to pay, and then things got nasty. It looks like Josh Bengston was right when he said this car would not be safe to drive.

Sure, agreed. The $13K bill sucks. I can see where one would look at a mess of wires on an EFI car and say, "I ain't touchin' that." It's a tough spot to be in. You want to be paid for the work you did, on the other hand, when the damn thing catches fire you are sorry you agreed to work on it at any price. These crappy plastic cars sting anybody that touches them.

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 12:17 PM
This does bring up a question though. I'm not trying to start a war but how many carb conversions have caught fire?

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 12:19 PM
This does bring up a question though. I'm not trying to start a war but how many carb conversions have caught fire?

Uh, yes you are. LOL.

Let's go from a "Lessons Learned" viewpoint on this. Carbs are a lot more forgiving, and when you are dealing with a cheap plastic car, you need a lot of forgiveness.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-23-2013, 12:20 PM
I'm no genius but it looks like the guy brought Josh Bengston a basketcase Delorean. Josh found lots of problems, the guy couldn't afford to pay, and then things got nasty. It looks like Josh Bengston was right when he said this car would not be safe to drive.

A) "Basket case" is a subjective assessment. Pontificators and prevaricators call my car a basket case
B) What exactly did Josh not like? Frame? Suspension? There are a lot of potential problem areas that have nothing do do with the engine
C) This is at least the second Megasquirted DeLorean to go up in flames (Adam in Florida being the other I know of) -- problem could be Megasquirt itself
D) Josh himself messed with this car's Megasquirt -- perhaps Josh did something that ultimately caused the fire

Bill Robertson
#5939

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 12:23 PM
A) "Basket case" is a subjective assessment. Pontificators and prevaricators call my car a basket case
B) What exactly did Josh not like? Frame? Suspension? There are a lot of potential problem areas that have nothing do do with the engine
C) This is at least the second Megasquirted DeLorean to go up in flames (Adam in Florida being the other I know of) -- problem could be Megasquirt itself
D) Josh himself messed with this car's Megasquirt -- perhaps Josh did something that ultimately caused the fire

Bill Robertson
#5939

Oh snap.

I'll try to hunt for the Florida incident.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-23-2013, 12:24 PM
This does bring up a question though. I'm not trying to start a war but how many carb conversions have caught fire?

Farrar's distributor cap caught fire, not the carb. A Volvo owner posted a pic on the old Talk.com of his own melted rotor button (there's a resistor inside the rotor) -- I'll post a copy here when I get home. I suspect the same thing happened to Farrar.

Bill Robertson
#5939

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 12:36 PM
I always thought Farrar's fire was before he was carbureted.

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 12:38 PM
Hmm... interesting, but difficult to make heads or tails out of the exchange between the owner and DPI/Josh Bengston, as posted on Talk. Without at least pictures at a minimum, it's really all just a subjective 'he said, he said' - so who do you believe?

I like objective evidence.

Clearly, something wasn't right with this car. Thus far, everyone appears to have presumed that the fire started due to an issue with the fuel delivery system, however, from the issues described, it sounds like it just as easily could have been started by a fault in the electrical system.

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 12:39 PM
"Why mine keep dying and Daryl's is still working is beyond me."
Guess you don't have to worry about that now.
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2083-Spittybug-Designs-for-converting-stock-setup-to-EFI&p=48384&viewfull=1#post48384

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 12:41 PM
No, let me be clear:

1) No gloating over a tragedy
2) I don't know what went wrong, other than the car had a clear history of multiple issues.

The only thing it means to me is that there isn't much margin of error on an EFI conversion.

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 12:57 PM
No, let me be clear:

1) No gloating over a tragedy
2) I don't know what went wrong, other than the car had a clear history of multiple issues.

The only thing it means to me is that there isn't much margin of error on an EFI conversion.

I suppose that one could argue that the publicity that these kind of tragedies generate universally, and not just within the DeLorean community, really act to damage the reputation of the car, and thus its value in the resale market. Kind of like the publicity generated when Johnny Carson was locked inside his DeLorean due to the faulty alternator / Lucas electrics.

It just got me thinking, as people on that other forum have started many 'how to increase the value of DeLoreans' threads, that seem to generate quite a bit of discussion.

Duplicate Account
09-23-2013, 01:01 PM
Whenever a D catches fire, it's news. Just like the one that caught fire in Portsmouth VA in 2007: big splash photo and a malfunctioning flux capacitor comment. No use in even trying to fight it.

http://deloreanwiki.wikidot.com/wiki:10458

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 01:42 PM
Whenever a D catches fire, it's news. Just like the one that caught fire in Portsmouth VA in 2007: big splash photo and a malfunctioning flux capacitor comment. No use in even trying to fight it.

http://deloreanwiki.wikidot.com/wiki:10458

That reminds me - I still owe you a write-up on the providence of #1798. I'll try to get around to it before the end of the week :)

Dracula
09-23-2013, 02:48 PM
Whenever a D catches fire, it's news. Just like the one that caught fire in Portsmouth VA in 2007: big splash photo and a malfunctioning flux capacitor comment. No use in even trying to fight it.

http://deloreanwiki.wikidot.com/wiki:10458

Those darned comments are appallingly insensitive, given the circumstances. The worst is that the firefighter who responded took a picture and uploaded it with a BTTF joke. If one of those jackwagon commentators had lost a project that they had a huge time, money, and emotional investment in I don't think they'd take kindly to such remarks.

Farrar
09-23-2013, 03:18 PM
I always thought Farrar's fire was before he was carbureted.

No, my car got a carburetor at Bill's house, then went all the way up to DCS 2008 in Gettysburg and back to Charlotte without incident. After visiting my parents in Charlotte, I began the return trip to Louisiana and the car caught fire 40 minutes later. It was an electrical fire: my engine compartment still has bits of orange plastic on it. They're droplet-shaped: bits of melted distributor cap flung around by the still-spinning rotor.

SIMid
09-23-2013, 06:06 PM
One of my fears owning my Delorean. Especially when I noticed having filled up the tank full and seeing a massive pool of fuel under the front of the car. (I believe the rubber gasket around the pump has a crack in it)

So seeing this pic has given me a small anxiety attack when I drove my car over the weekend.

I do carry a fire extinguisher in my car, just in case.

mydmc5898
09-23-2013, 09:12 PM
First I'm annoyed I again have I have to dispute this.
I had to sue DPI and won most of what I asked for. I paid in full for the work to be done this can be found in public record in Stow Ohio. Second I have a message from Josh stating the car was done for me to pick up, the problems didn't arise until be fore i picked it up. nearly a year after it was stated to be done. So again, and with the law on my side it wasn't a payment issue it was lack of DPI fulfilling the contract

The reason the car was "unsafe" was for these reasons:
Old shocks- replaced before on the road so it was safe
rot in the crumble tube and left front frame - cut out and replaced/rebuilt/reinforced and again this was presented to the court.
NO fuel lines, we installed all new ones with Delorean and GM fittings
Wiring that was unsafe I was charged twice to fix it. first $400 and another $800.

the condition I got the car back
missing laptop
missing trunk carpet
wrong tail light installed
bad wiring
several oil leaks
several coolant leaks
damaged starter
fuel leak at DPI installed regulator

now to their credit they did not deny any of this and did not fight the Judge's findings.

I was able to pass PA state law and clock 3k miles on the car.

Now I can't pass PA inspection by inspecting my car. two people have to sign off on it and at the time were being inspected per our turn by the state police to make sure everything is on the up and up. So again, and this is all public the car was just as safe as any one legally on the road.
So again, the court found in my favor.

All the paper work has to be turned over to the insurance company.

Now hopefully that is all cleared up.


On to the fire.

My fiancee and I were traveling south bound to a wedding in Reading PA. About 30min into the trip a truck slammed on his brakes which I had to do the same. As traffic sped up I had to accelerate hard. The engine sounded like it loaded up on fuel. I then pulled over when i heard backfiring and smelled unburnt fuel. I pulled over and let the car sit for a bit. I started it back up and it ran fine. A few moments in, Lauren turned and said she smelled smoke. I thought it was the fuel blowing out. Smoke started to come in the cabin behind her near the fuse box area. I looked behind me and saw flames on the bumper. I pulled over and had her run and call 9-11.
I pulled out the fire extinguisher and and tried my best to put it out. The fire was ONLY LOCATED on the bumper above the muffler above the crank pully. So the sensor was in the middle of where I sprayed.Maybe throwing off the timing which caused the rich condition?
The extinguisher ran out and I started to throw dirt and rocks on the fire which Lauren yelled and began to cry seeing me panic trying to save the car. Now this didn't spread fast at first it was just the bumper. It made its was to the right side of the car and the tape on the wires began to bubble. Something in the bumper was on fire at this point. Seeing I couldn't do anything else I ran back and began to record. The motor not at anytime was on fire when I was back there. When someone had asked on Facebook what happened my reaction was engine fire. But I was wrong.
I was back there, there was no fuel leaking at all that I could see. At this point the car was in a blaze. The firetruck arrived and began to put it out. The reason the windows were busted was due to the fire fighters. The smashed out the windows to spray the inside of the car which at that point was beginning to burn.

At this time the car is scheduled to be investigated to find out what happened. So no one knows for sure about what happened.
the flames were only located on/in the bumper. What started it or caused it is unknown.

I hope this dispels any rumors or whatever. Again Stow has the court records, as for the car now we can speculate and I've been racking my brain. I'm not avoiding blame, and I'm assigning it. it is possible it was a freak accident or could be a faulty item installed, went bad at this point it could be anything.

No one was hurt either, but the car from the back of the seats to the rear is destroyed. amazingly the doors open and close fine, minus my driver door issue.

Hope this is enough, please any questions just ask.

Darryl
5898

mydmc5898
09-23-2013, 09:27 PM
It was my car, i started my own thread just address all the mistakes so far.

-Darryl
5898

Boo
09-23-2013, 09:41 PM
I'm so sorry to hear about your car Darryl.

stevedmc
09-23-2013, 09:53 PM
Wow. I'm sorry to hear about the recent problem.

Thank you for sharing your DPI court story with us. Personally I have nothing against Josh and I want to be as neutral as I can.

The Talk thread made you look like the bad guy but the results from your court case prove otherwise. You have my word that whatever you say here will not be edited or blocked. If you have a story then you should be able to share it without fear of being banned.

SIMid
09-23-2013, 10:05 PM
So sorry to hear about your loss Darryl, just glad you and your partner are ok.

It might be too early to ask, would you get another Delorean?

mydmc5898
09-23-2013, 10:09 PM
I don't want to turn people on one another. I do see how it was interpreted that way. but everyone was fixated on the red herrings that where there that had nothing to do with what was paid for. And the entire payment issue which was just nonsense. But it is public, and I made copies for both Josh, myself and court. And it was a stack because I save everything! I have eery bit of paper work back from 2001. I had many people who want to remain nameless as of now anyway who said they had nearly the same issues.
I has sued for $2800 or so, i got back $1,836 and change. She felt from what I gather it was hard to figure out the wiring on what i did as opposed to Josh.
Also on the quotes I gave to which the cost was so low was because I included my discount to be fair since I do work at a garage. Other wise it would have been a lot more. But I felt it was only fair to submit what it cost me to fix it. Again if I didn't work there it easily would have been more than double $2,800. I try not to be greedy. And with the exception of two quotes I should say. The others i forgot but did make notes to the judge that it would cost me less.
I've also done very cheap deals when i converted to EFI the first time. i sold all my J-Ket stuff for dirt cheap. I had a brand new distributor, water pump, mixture until and it all went under $400 when I sold it collectively.
I even gave Josh my old 2.8 for free before I started doing business with him since he had to drive all the way out on his own.
As far as I'm concerned that is over and done with.



And thank you all for the support on Saturday's events. I really wish I knew what happened as of now there is little left of the bumper. But once they determine of feel confidant I will post what happened.
I would love to replace 5898. Honestly to have it rebuilt sitting outside is what I want. But someone else will have to do that. One day I'll look for another.

-Darryl

mydmc5898
09-23-2013, 10:15 PM
Thank you!
I'm very happy she is safe. I scared her because once I realized I couldn't stop the fire I lost my temper and started kicking it, etc.. looked like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum. But once I saw her, the car didn't seem nearly as important. So I walked over and just held her while the car burned. And honestly without her being there for me, I don't know how I would have handled it. She has been great support, even looking to see if we can get another one. A friend of hers, well an elderly gentleman who owned two, one being painted said he wished he didn't sell the other one and he would have had me work for him or fix his and he would have given me his. To good to be true I know. But I do believe he would. However I offered to work on his anyway for free. I was over there Sunday because his back up lights failed.
Sensor in the trans.

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 10:17 PM
First and foremost - very GLAD that you and the fiance are safe! That's most important :)

Second, sorry to hear about your experience with DPI, and thanks for the follow-up regarding your lawsuit and judgment won against them, as I don't believe that was ever part of the record over on Talk. From a sharing perspective, the follow-up / conclusion is the most important part IMHO, as it provides other owners with a complete picture so that they're able to make informed/wise decisions for themselves in the future.

Third, after getting the fiance to safety, my second instinct would have also been to try to save the car at all costs - I probably would have tried to sacrifice myself to the benefit of the car, as stupid as that admittedly sounds. I know that you don't think clearly during a panic situation and hind sight is always 20-20, but I wonder if after the fire extinguisher had been exhausted, if the rest of the fire (presumably still relatively small at that point) could have been successfully smothered out by using either the trunk/cargo area or parcel shelf carpeting or an article of clothing, as that would have been my second thought after the fire extinguisher....

Anyway, very sorry about the car - that definitely blows the big one! :( Sounds like you're comprehensively insured though, so hopefully you'll be back on the road by next spring with either a repaired 5898 or another DeLorean :)

Just a few question if you don't mind (but if you do, don't be afraid to tell me):
1) What insurance company holds the policy on your car?
2) Is the policy for replacement/market value, or stated value?

I only ask because it could provide valuable insight as to the insurer for other owners, that is of course if you'd be so kind as to share your claims experience with the community.

Please also be sure to let us know the determined cause, as it has been widely presumed to be a fuel delivery issue, although I suspected it to be an electrical issue.

Thanks for sharing with us and my very best in dealing with the aftermath of the situation. :)

Dracula
09-23-2013, 10:28 PM
GAH! I tried to merge the threads, but I can't do so without making Patrick's post the first one...

mydmc5898
09-23-2013, 10:38 PM
i was going to post a follow about DPI once the check cleared and all was good. I just got this past week. I was going to post actually Sunday.
But the fire happened.

I just posted this on DMCtalk

"Thanks again everyone!

As for the cars future I've had a few people ask for the entire car in hopes to use parts or restore it under a salvage title.
I was very to the insurance company about how much this car means to me. I don't want it to become a useless pile. There are a few options. One option is buying back and selling the whole car or parts. If I had the time and money I would have it done. I can assure everyone this car means a lot to me for many reasons so I will make sure it will be used one way or another.

To give you background on this car. When I was 12 I use to go cut grass with my grandfather, Walter Levanda. I knew I wanted a DeLorean and saved the "money" I got paid. I never spent a cent. When I was 16 I got a job at a video store and worked many hours. When they asked why I wanted so many and did extra work on the side I said it was to buy a DeLorean. which i got laughed at in a nice way because it was cute. I turned 17, a few months later I had a lot saved from any holiday, birthday, job, whatever. I went and was able to get a personal loan for the rest of the amount with help from relatives. I saw one for sale in pittson Pa by the family Valenti. I paid for it and drove it home in 2001. It was the car I taught myself how to drive, it was the car I learned how to work on. it was the car at the parade for Sept 11 2001 for our troops in our little town, the car i used to follow the ambulance that took my grandfather to the hospital for the last time, the car that I used in my other grandfathers funeral, an awesome 80s party, the car my future wife and I drove home when I proposed, the one that entertained an army of kids at our engagement party. It was the car we said we would pass down to our kids or grand kids.

So I do have maybe an unhealthy love for this particular automobile. And it really sucks it had to go so early on me.
But I have Lauren and the car will be replaced, this one just has so many memories.

So trust me, it won't be lost."

Liberty Mutual is my insurance company, and I do have full coverage.
They said they aren't sure how to determine the value. It will be several ways, however they want all the paper work from 2001. I have paper work from the mid 90s too. I believe it will be market value, however she said they may base it on the condition of the surviving parts, plus taking in account the many safety upgrades/improvements I've done this year alone.

it was an odd place where it started, there doesn't seem to be anything there that should be on fire. Most of the damaged seems to be on the right side of the car as well.
And as soon as I get the information on what happened I will definitely let everyone know. I don't want anyone to experience this. seeing the axes being cut into the pontoon and windows really hurt as well while they made sure it was out. And any information I can give feel free to ask if I don't post it.

I've been trying to make sure I post the same information in each forum.
when I talked to the agent today she said (not making this up) State Police Officer Micheal J. Foux (pronounced Fox)said a 9-11 call was palced about a car that had fire on its rear bumper about 5-10 min before i had any car trouble.
Slammed on the brakes and the car began to experience a missfire/rich condition. perhaps the fire screwing with the pick up sensor?
stopped the car, started back up. still didn't see a fire.
car began to bog down again once we picked up speed.
smoke began to fill the cabin from behind the passenger side.
pulled over and began to battle fire. the middle of the bumper above the muffler and crank was all flames.
the wiring for the lights under the overflow bottle, the tape began to bubble. The fire spread to the left and right pontoon. The main engine cover sank and caught fire from the bumper and sides which than ignited the fuel lines and electrical parts.
Once we got away the louvers were open which ultimately caught fire and fell into the car.
The bumper, plate, tail lights, all hoses and the belt, were all disintegrated. the fuse box area was damaged beyond recognition.
The ECu are looked fine, however I didnt pull it apart.

-Darryl

and thanks again everyone for your support!
its much needed!

Dracula
09-23-2013, 10:44 PM
The BTTF jokes about this sicken me. They're not appropriate for such a loss. Some of the people in this community make me feel more confident in my decision to sell my car.

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 10:48 PM
when I talked to the agent today she said (not making this up) State Police Officer Micheal J. Foux (pronounced Fox)said a 9-11 call was palced about a car that had fire on its rear bumper about 5-10 min before i had any car trouble.

Thanks for all the info - it's much appreciated!

And if that isn't one of the strangest coincidences in the history of road-side automotive troubles, then I don't know what is. At least you can smile about that - makes a great story for the future and to pass on to your kids. :)

NightFlyer
09-23-2013, 10:50 PM
The BTTF jokes about this sicken me. They're not appropriate for such a loss. Some of the people in this community make me feel more confident in my decision to sell my car.

I concur - especially about the ones coming from within the community. Just not appropriate under the circumstances.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-23-2013, 11:20 PM
... The reason the car was "unsafe" was for these reasons:

rot in the crumble tube and left front frame - cut out and replaced/rebuilt/reinforced and again this was presented to the court....

People go crazy about rust in the crumple extension, but the bottom line is: except for the sway bar, not a single suspension component is attached to the crumple extension. Basically its only job is to hold up the radiator. It does hold the steering rack, but that is a very low stress function. It also is a lateral/side to side function.

Bill Robertson
#5939

mydmc5898
09-24-2013, 12:50 AM
Didn't you build your own Bill?

I had an entire new tube made with a new gas tank cover as well.
The rail was repaired too. We changed the pitch slightly. The old cover when removed had old gas in it. It didn't has anywhere to go so we made drain points as well.

I really only wanted to replace the LCAs and steering rack.
And again only due to age. I was regraining the stainless the other night. I was getting ready to pull the front fenders and realign it all. Bumpers were going to get relay tee and my cousins were going to help me redo the entire interior.
My old boss was going to help me fix the door cage. I had the winter all lined up.
It still feels like a bad dream, other times reality sinks in.

-Darryl

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-24-2013, 09:31 AM
I reinforced the original crumple extension, and rendered any structural purpose moot by converting the LCA's into what are basically lower wishbones (sway bar does not pull against the crumple extension to keep the LCA's in line).

Fuel tank is nestled in the frame itself. Damage around it (other than the closing plate) is an entirely different matter. Worth noting however that QAC's themselves often rewelded the front wye, so there were fabrication problems even from the original manufacturer (cut frames at DMC Houston):

687

Bill Robertson
#5939

stevedmc
09-24-2013, 09:58 AM
Here is an interesting question. Is the front end recal really necessary if you are using Ed's LCA reinforcements? I would think not but just figured I would ask.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-24-2013, 11:02 AM
IMHO no, but I am driving a redneck basket case FrankenDeLorean that is GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY!!!* so what do I know anyway?

Bill Robertson
#5939

* Josh Bengston quote from the lost Talk.com archives

Dracula
09-24-2013, 03:05 PM
IMHO no, but I am driving a redneck basket case FrankenDeLorean that is GOING TO KILL SOMEBODY!!!* so what do I know anyway?

Bill Robertson
#5939

* Josh Bengston quote from the lost Talk.com archives

The same Josh Bengston who has been proven, in a court of law, to charge customers thousands of dollars for work that he only claims to perform.

Duplicate Account
09-24-2013, 07:58 PM
On another forum somebody was saying that Delorean fire prevention depended on maintenance. Well, sure, but the truth is, these crappy plastic cars were catching fire from the very beginning. (Of course we don't know the circumstances, but they are rather like kindling.)

http://deloreanwiki.wikidot.com/wiki:858
http://deloreanwiki.wikidot.com/wiki:859

Interesting that they were sister cars. Might have been a different car carrier accident? Anyway, this is what makes a building a Wiki so useful. You can search on the word "Fire" and all the ones I have thus far logged come up.

It's a monster building a wiki by yourself, but what the heck.

Bitsyncmaster
09-25-2013, 05:20 AM
I bet that impact foam is flammable. It seems that is what kept the fire going.

stevedmc
09-25-2013, 10:16 AM
I just read about this car's history on Delorean wiki and boy this is a sad loss.

I know it is probably not the time to ask, but I wonder if we might be able to get the ignition module from this car. It would be pretty sweet if we could use it to make a Duraspark adapter and raffle the thing off.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
09-25-2013, 10:28 AM
Darryl's got more than enough other things to think about at the moment.

As soon as I get some Ford connectors I will make you an adapter from the cut down Bosch connector I already have.

Then, if your proper sized module *EVER* shows up at my house, we can use it to make a raffleable adapter (even though the cut down harness connector will work just fine, a proper sized one will look more professional to a recipient).

Bill Robertson
#5939

stevedmc
09-25-2013, 11:12 AM
Darryl's got more than enough other things to think about at the moment.

As soon as I get some Ford connectors I will make you an adapter from the cut down Bosch connector I already have.

Then, if your proper sized module *EVER* shows up at my house, we can use it to make a raffleable adapter (even though the cut down harness connector will work just fine, a proper sized one will look more professional to a recipient).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Good point. I hope some parts get salvaved from the car though. It would be a shame for it to end up at the crusher.

I'll have to ask Josh if he has some sort of tracking number. The thing did get shipped from Canada. Perhaps something happened to it in customs.

mydmc5898
09-25-2013, 12:39 PM
A quick update as of now.
I posted a few more pictures on Facebook. You can see the cars electronics at the fuse box and ecu weren't touched. The burnt material on top of the ecu is just the exterior that was thrown into the car from the fire.
The right rear panel is barely on.
Both doors have damage near the torsion bars. However the bars look untouched. Under the car looks pretty clean.

The is insurance company informed me the car is now at their facility and will be inspected tomorrow. However they said very little is left to tell what happened.

I should here from tomorrow night. However they said i can help them sort out the value by Turing over all receipts for work done.
Anythin with in a year or under 15,000 miles improves the value.
So being the motor only had 3k along with the coolant, brakes, clutch parts is very good.

The trans was installed with maybe 5k-7k miles on it.

They did say I may not hear anything until Friday or Monday being they need to sort out the value for a such a rare and exotic car.

I'll keep everyone posted. I'll try I get the pictures uploaded here tonight.

Thanks again everyone.
Hoping to be an owner again soon!

As for this cars future. I have to wait to see what they say I can do with it. I have no I tensions of letting it fade away in a scrap pile.

I can't say due to the person"/ request. But they have close ties to this car and history with it as well and hope to rebuild it, or at the very least use it to finish another DeLorean.

But I did promise not to give away their name until they do it or give me permission. But they are a huge DeLorean fan and have owned a few already.
So it seems this car still has a future one way or another.

-Darryl

NightFlyer
09-25-2013, 01:11 PM
A quick update as of now.
I posted a few more pictures on Facebook. You can see the cars electronics at the fuse box and ecu weren't touched. The burnt material on top of the ecu is just the exterior that was thrown into the car from the fire.
The right rear panel is barely on.
Both doors have damage near the torsion bars. However the bars look untouched. Under the car looks pretty clean.

The is insurance company informed me the car is now at their facility and will be inspected tomorrow. However they said very little is left to tell what happened.

I should here from tomorrow night. However they said i can help them sort out the value by Turing over all receipts for work done.
Anythin with in a year or under 15,000 miles improves the value.
So being the motor only had 3k along with the coolant, brakes, clutch parts is very good.

The trans was installed with maybe 5k-7k miles on it.

They did say I may not hear anything until Friday or Monday being they need to sort out the value for a such a rare and exotic car.

I'll keep everyone posted. I'll try I get the pictures uploaded here tonight.

Thanks again everyone.
Hoping to be an owner again soon!

As for this cars future. I have to wait to see what they say I can do with it. I have no I tensions of letting it fade away in a scrap pile.

I can't say due to the person"/ request. But they have close ties to this car and history with it as well and hope to rebuild it, or at the very least use it to finish another DeLorean.

But I did promise not to give away their name until they do it or give me permission. But they are a huge DeLorean fan and have owned a few already.
So it seems this car still has a future one way or another.

-Darryl

Well, glad to hear that there are some bright spots to this tragedy.

As to value - that's one of the toughest things with a DeLorean as the range seems to extend from $4k-$60k. That's actually why I prefer a stated/agreed value policy vs a market/replacement policy.

If it helps at all, Hagerty has compiled a Classic Car Value Guide, which I believe tracks auction sales.

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vc=919041

They currently show an average sales price of $19,058, but actual tracked sales vary by condition and range from $13k-$39.3k. Most interesting is that Hagerty's tracking shows a substantial increase in value over the last 2.5 years.

If your insurer is having trouble, perhaps presenting them with Hagerty's analysis will greatly assist them (if of course such is in your best interest).

Best of luck!

SIMid
09-25-2013, 10:12 PM
Not sure if anyone here has been reading the conversation Darryl and I had on FB.

My guess is that as he may have been running rich (stalling, backfiring) and his CATs could have heated up with the unburnt fuel and started glowing red hot. As the exhaust may have been touching the bumper, this would generate enough heat to start a fire. Plus driving and fanning more air to the flame, there will be no chance to stop the inferno.

I'm only speculating here.

NightFlyer
09-25-2013, 11:00 PM
Not sure if anyone here has been reading the conversation Darryl and I had on FB.

My guess is that as he may have been running rich (stalling, backfiring) and his CATs could have heated up with the unburnt fuel and started glowing red hot. As the exhaust may have been touching the bumper, this would generate enough heat to start a fire. Plus driving and fanning more air to the flame, there will be no chance to stop the inferno.

I'm only speculating here.

I thought he said that he pulled over a couple times and inspected the engine bay prior to the fire. You'd think that he would have noticed a glowing cat, but perhaps not. Would be somewhat ironic though, as most attribute the glowing cat to K-Jet issues and not really a problem with EFI.

mydmc5898
09-26-2013, 02:20 PM
I received a call today from the insurance company. They said what was left. The hood, front fenders, front frame, all four wheels, and windshield plus the bumper are all in great shape. However the rest of the car has a great amount of damage.

As for the cause...
The vast majority of where the fire started looks to be completely incinerated.
So the gentleman I spoke with couldn't give me a cause. And it's not likely they will know.
I will try to gather every bit of info I have an construct a time table with what I do know, or could recall.
As for pay out etc... I won hear anything until around Monday or later.

I sent in all the paper work and title.
I'll keep everyone posted

Thanks again,
Darryl



As for the glowing cats.
I did stop once to pull over but just tired the car off and let it sit for little bit to cool down and let any fuel dry.
Once the car sat for a little while I started it back up and it started without a problem. About a half mile down the road when I hit 55 is when it acted up again.

When I went back to the motor I didn't look under the car because the flames were already eating the bumper. However the cats are clearly visable on DPI's exhaust.

But it is possible though. I may just not have noticed in the situation. Honestly I didn't even think about it.

SIMid
09-26-2013, 06:55 PM
Is there an option to buy your car back once the payout has been finalised? So you could have her like a repairable writeoff?

Looks like you may need a donar car to get her back on the road again.

mydmc5898
09-27-2013, 07:48 AM
There is someone who has a great deal of history with this car as well. I won't left it sit in a scrap yard. As of now they don't want their name out there, however I do believe they will do what it take to rebuild or reuse the parts. Honestly the pictures don't tell just how much damaged there is.
I hate to watch these go to any kind of waste.

71771871972072172272372472572672772872973073173273 3734735736



I tried to get as many pics where the fire started.

The path of the fire started at the bumper in front the crank. It then caught the engine cover and right side of the car on fire. the engine cover fell onto the motor igniting the left side of the car. this caused flames large and hot enough you can see in the video where the louvers which where up at that point ignited at fell into the engine as well

mydmc5898
09-27-2013, 07:55 AM
757758759760761762763

NightFlyer
09-27-2013, 12:15 PM
Reading through everything again, I noticed that it's your theory that the fire had started before the hard braking incident, before you noticed the back firing / smell of unburnt fuel, and before you pulled over to let the engine sit - correct?

I'm starting to wonder if the fire wasn't caused by friction - something came loose and started rubbing on either a belt or even possibly the transaxle until it burst into flame. I had a wire-tie come loose in my engine bay and the driver's side coolant pipe started rubbing on the transaxle. Luckily I noticed it fairly quickly and remedied the situation before any catastrophic damage had occurred. I'm not sure how much wire, vacuum tubing, pipe, lines, etc is bracketed and tied to keep them away from hot/moving parts on a 3.0 swap, but with the stock/OEM 2.8, it's quite a bit. And the failure of just one tie/bracket could cause some issues.

Anyway, just another theory to add to the mix, as an electrical fire starting in the bumper is a very remote possibility, although not entirely impossible.

Thanks for the pics and best of luck in dealing with the aftermath.

mydmc5898
09-27-2013, 09:36 PM
There is a lot less to have to keep away. However it doesn't mean something did come loose. On DMCtalk a poster suggested the truck in front of me suddenly switched lanes and braked to maybe a void debris and I may have caught it. However I didn't see or hear anything.

It really comes down to when the 9-11 call was made about me. If it was made before I made the quick stop I have to say I agree that the fire had already started. And being it was located near the VR pick up, it could have interfered with the timing thus causing the engine problems. However there are plenty of places that can be poked threw on my theory.

What I have been thinking is a mix of a few things.

I posted this on DMCtalk
I'll try to create a time table the best I can.

However the times are estimates at best besides the 9-11 calls.
At about 2:30pm we depart from Wilkes-Barre headed south on 81towards Reading.
At about 2:50pma truck pulls in front of me hitting his brakes I follow suit.
I then hit the gas hard to keep up with traffic. I immediately notice a sluggish response.
The car begins to back fire and smell like unburnt fuel.
Now prior to this or at this time someone calls 9-11 to report a DeLorean on fire. Why sends officer Michael J. Foux (not making that up) I the road looking for me.
At this point I stop the car realizing the engine isn't working correctly. I pull off t the side of the road.
Around 3:00pm I start the car once again and pull on to the highway. It started as ran fine.
I hit about 55mph and hold it there about a half mile from the first stop.
Shortly after hitting 55. The car begins to act up. This time we notice smoke in the car behind the passenger seat. And gets heavier the slower I go.
I pull over to the side and we exit the car. At this pointing is about3:10.
We see the car is on fire. Lauren calls 9-11, I run to the back of the car with the fire extinguisher. Standing at the right side quarter pannel hitting the fire attempting to use the car as a shield.
The only area on fire is the bumper, the area effected is across from the crank and above the muffler. (Which I understand has a polyurethane pad under it)
This point the inside of the bumper is ablaze (I though it was just the cover)
After the extinguisher runs out I grab hand films and arm fulls of dirt and begin to throw them on the rear deck/exposed fire.
The flat lid collapsed on the motor igniting and burning. This is the point I gave up. Around 3:20 the fire department arrives. However much of the car is ablaze.

What I have thought may have happened is the muffler being as close to the bumper as it was, maybe it has been hitting the bumper over time creating an area that was weak. By this time only the rubber and polyurethane were exposed. The rubber caught fire and set the polyurethane a blaze. in the midst the fire disrupted the sensor function, being the are heat sensitive. Which caused the mechanical issues.

However being I have no engineering background or know much about the degree certain materials burn, I'm sure this has plenty of holes as well.
To me it made sense, but I could just be completely off. the only thing I know for certain is the bumper was the only thing burning when i went to the back of the car.

-Darryl

I was also asked to check the battery but Liberty has the car at the moment.

Bitsyncmaster
09-28-2013, 04:41 AM
Was you muffler running across the back like a OEM setup would do? Did you have the shield between the muffler and the rear end?

mydmc5898
09-28-2013, 08:28 AM
It sat just like the oem.
From what I understand it is larger but I can't confirm that.

No shield either, the metal plate in the pictures was part of the bumper

-Darryl

mydmc5898
09-28-2013, 08:30 AM
I'm sure I have picture of the car, I'll have to look for them. I don't think I took any of the muffler directly but it is visable

mydmc5898
10-04-2013, 10:04 PM
I'm sorry I didn't mean to be sneaky!
I do believe the remains will be going to a good home. I'm sure it will be on the road one way or another. The future new owner will take excellent care of it.

I do have a small update. Liberty gave me the buy back price plus the buy out as well. Once the money is in hand and the car is with it's new owner I promise to post all the details including the cost or rebuild and brake down of an itemized list. Plus any other documentation I could post.
Also I did submit pretty much every document I could find. I do feel their price was very fair.


Again thanks everyone!
-Darryl

Why all the hate on Bill? I would be mad too. Someone publicly attempted to discredit him and insult him with no shred of evidence. it was an act of bullying.
Seems like Bill is alive so far. Its not like his car burst into flames.

Duplicate Account
10-05-2013, 06:53 PM
Has anybody ever brought up the flammability of the resin from the underbody as being particularly unhelpful when a fire breaks out?

mydmc5898
10-08-2013, 08:52 AM
The fire investigation is finished. I will have an official report hopefully soon. However I have to wait for their permission to post anything due to legal matters. Which means any names or company names have to be washed when I post it.

Luckily I was there while they investigated, so I do know the cause and I will share it once I'm given the ok.
I can say however
It was NOT electrical
It was NOT the muffler
It was NOT the fuel mixture

It is a fault with the 3.0 though.

Once I have the report or given permission to post/write I will.

-Darryl
5898

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
10-08-2013, 09:09 AM
The rubber hose connected to the passenger side injector rail, right next to the distributor/coil packs, doesn't seem exactly 100% safe.

Bill Robertson
#5939

mydmc5898
10-08-2013, 09:32 AM
It was the front right of the motor.
However once it ignited there it caught the body on fire. Being it was low I simply didn't see, so I was wrong. However the bumper was next and is what I only saw.

You can see the massive damage that someone pointed out on the right. It started right by it.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
10-08-2013, 09:42 AM
That is where the distributor/coil packs are....

Bill Robertson
#5939

mydmc5898
10-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Not on mine. Mine sat on the left side off from the throttle body.
In some of the pictures you can see what's left of the coil pack and module.

mydmc5898
10-08-2013, 09:58 AM
821

Duplicate Account
10-08-2013, 10:16 AM
821

Certainly was nice looking!

mydmc5898
10-08-2013, 10:24 AM
Thanks!
I had repainted the bay shortly after that picture... So in March or so?
I had just started to grain the stainless and I was going to pull the bumpers to paint too.

Doogie
10-08-2013, 08:41 PM
Thanks!
I had repainted the bay shortly after that picture... So in March or so?
I had just started to grain the stainless and I was going to pull the bumpers to paint too.



Gawd, everytime I read your responses I can hear the crackle in your voice! So Sorry Man! So GLAD you and yours got out SAFE!! In the end it's just a car, but still I can hear the fear and crackle with every post. Glad you and her are on the other side safe.

mydmc5898
10-08-2013, 10:40 PM
Thanks, it is still weird not seeing it there. But I do feel better knowing what caused it.

I agree I'm happy we got out of it safe. It was a good thing Lauren was more observant than me too.

Thanks again!
Darryl

mydmc5898
10-11-2013, 01:07 PM
After speaking with the insurance company today, the car is being released. The new owner should be taking it within a few days.

I asked about what documents I can post and what I can't since the fire inspection company said I had to be selective about who I can name etc...
The response I was given was I can type in my own words what the reports say, however they would prefer if I didn't post themselves.

So to satisfy the cause and origin of the fire that destroyed 5898.

The fuel line running on top of the PRV between the rails burst or split under pressure. Presumably when I hit the gas pedal hard.

Now to make this clear, this is not a fuel line that I installed. This was the one already on the 3.0 when I picked the car up.

The fuel line failed and spit fuel to the right side of the motor. It covered the alternator and converter. Causing a fire on the inner side of the engine bay right hand side.
They explained from the angle I was standing I didn't see the fire raging behind the panel I used for cover.

The fire than moved to the bumper and united that as well.
They said once the fire started there wasn't anything I would have been able to do.
This the car was doomed as soon as that line burst.

You can see in the pictures on the right side valve cover, alternator and fuel rail the color which shows what he described as the start of the blaze. The right side sustained the damaged and it just moved to the bumper. But from what I stated it burned from the inside out.

-Darryl

NightFlyer
10-11-2013, 01:25 PM
Was it a steel/hard line, or a rubber/soft line?

mydmc5898
10-11-2013, 01:32 PM
It's that rubber line. It connects the fuel rails. It's right behind the water pump in the pictures above. They said when it spit it shot right down along the right side valve cover. In the wreak photos if you zoom in you can see a pattern on it too.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
10-11-2013, 01:50 PM
Original factory line is actually plastic with a protective rubber sheath, just like a K-Jet line.

Gasohol is wreaking havoc on 2 cycle plastic fuel lines. Same with marine plastic fuel lines. They were formulated for gasoline exposure, not alcohol exposure. I suspect failures like this will become increasingly common in road vehicles too.

Bill Robertson
#5939

NightFlyer
10-11-2013, 01:53 PM
It's that rubber line. It connects the fuel rails. It's right behind the water pump in the pictures above. They said when it spit it shot right down along the right side valve cover. In the wreak photos if you zoom in you can see a pattern on it too.

Was that line fairly old or new and just defective?

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
10-11-2013, 01:58 PM
821

Appears to be the original factory line -- notice the absence of hose clamps (factory line is shrunk onto the barbs, just like K-Jet).

Bill Robertson
#5939

stevedmc
10-11-2013, 02:00 PM
Is that a coil pack for ignition? Fancy smancy!

mydmc5898
10-11-2013, 02:30 PM
I don't know the age, not sure if it's orginal or not. DPI could answer that one.

But it didn't have clamps correct, but I never tried to mess with it. The lines that were not connected were the feed and return lines.
Those were the only two I know for sure were 100% brand new.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
10-11-2013, 02:49 PM
How many OEM K-Jet lines have cracked lately? Seems to be increasingly common. I suspect the polymer they are made from is designed for long term hydrocarbon exposure, not even short term alcohol exposure.

In the vintage Volkswagen world plastic Bosch fuel filters are increasingly cracking apart, spraying fuel all over the engine compartment. My fire department buddy has one in his driveway right now (not his car -- a car he's repairing for another owner). Difference of course: a Beetle is made from metal -- at least there is something left to repair.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Dracula
10-11-2013, 03:16 PM
I don't know the age, not sure if it's orginal or not. DPI could answer that one.

But it didn't have clamps correct, but I never tried to mess with it. The lines that were not connected were the feed and return lines.
Those were the only two I know for sure were 100% brand new.

So the source of the fire was a fuel line installed by DPI that was not properly secured.

Greasy DeLorean Mechanic
10-11-2013, 04:10 PM
If it was the original crossover hose it would be a standard line failure, just like a split K-Jet hose.

Blame would actually lie with Congress for mandating ethanol in the gas.

Bill Robertson
#5939

mydmc5898
10-11-2013, 04:21 PM
I thought it was just a rubber line, no plastic.

Anyway from what I remember of that line I didn't see any issues with it. I do know that the previous 3.0 that was in the car, I had changed that hose just because of age.

Duplicate Account
10-11-2013, 04:22 PM
If it was the original crossover hose it would be a standard line failure, just like a split K-Jet hose.

Blame would actually lie with Congress for mandating ethanol in the gas.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Supreme Court said corporations are people and contributing large amounts of money to campaigns is a matter of free speech. Such as when a particular lobby forces using ethanol. Just to spread the blame a little thinner.