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stevedmc
07-04-2013, 09:31 AM
A few months back I had the chance to participate in a Harlem Shake video. I objected and decided not to participate based on the lyrics of the song. Someone has accused me of not participating in the video for religious reasons, and although I am a Christian (as messed up as I am) my reasons for objecting to participating in the video had nothing to do with my faith.

The lyrics of the song are in Spanish so most people just listen to the music and ignore the lyrics that are being spoken.

Here are the lyrics for anyone that cares:

With the terrorists
Hey Shake
Hey Shake
Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey
Shake, Ta. Ta
And do the Harlem Shake
Shake Hey, Hey

Shake, Shake
Hey
Shake, Shake, Shake
With the terrorists
Hey, with terrorists
Hey, Hey


After what happened twelve years ago, I don't think the lyrics to this song are very cool. People can agree or disagree with me if they want. I'm civilized enough to respect anyone's wishes. I only mentioned this to a small handful of people at Decker's tech day because I didn't want to spoil the "fun".

NightFlyer
07-04-2013, 11:52 AM
I agree with Steve on this - I would not have participated either. Passivity and ignorance lead to complacency. Thanks for being well informed Steve!

dvonk
07-04-2013, 11:59 AM
frankly, ive never heard the song, although ive heard people make references to it. past trends have shown that i dont like popular 'fad' stuff anyway.

no doubt it sucks. good job steve.

Dracula
07-04-2013, 01:17 PM
This is EXACTLY the reason that I'm not attending one of the local club's get-together events. They promoted their annual barbecue with this line:


We will also be shooting a DeLorean / BTTF "Harlem Shake" video at the picnic! So, bring your DeLorean, and/or any DeLorean or BTTF costumes / memorabilia to be featured in the video!

I do not want my DeLorean associated with a song about being in league with terrorists or BTTF. To me, it just screams of ignorance and it's not something I want to be a part of, after having proudly served in the US Army.

stevedmc
07-04-2013, 02:06 PM
I wouldn't let it keep you from enjoying the company of other car owners. Simply, politely refuse to take part in the terrorist dance. If they hassle you, simply say you can't participate because you don't agree with the lyrics.

That's what I did and evidentially I am being accused of being holier that thou.

Ain't nobody gonna break my stride. Ain't nobody gonna hold me down. Oh no.

Btw, I used to like French toast. Now I like Twinkies.

NightFlyer
07-04-2013, 02:11 PM
I wouldn't let it keep you from enjoying the company of other car owners. Simply, politely refuse to take part in the terrorist dance. If they hassle you, simply say you can't participate because you don't agree with the lyrics.

That's what I did and evidentially I am being accused of being holier that thou.

Ain't nobody gonna break my stride. Ain't nobody gonna hold me down. Oh no.

Btw, I used to like French toast. Now I like Twinkies.

Again, I agree with Steve - well put!

And while I love french toast, I'm actually more of a vanilla zingers man than a twinkie man :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Vanilla_zingers.JPG

stevedmc
07-04-2013, 11:08 PM
Lemon zingers for me. Lemon.

thirdmanj
07-11-2013, 11:08 AM
Oh my lord, you people. I've never heard or seen the Harlem Shake craze, but I heard about it. After reading your comments, I decided to take a closer look at it. I've come to the conclusion you guys are a bit nuts. It's a sampled catching song, designed with beats and sounds to stick in the mind. There is no evidence to suggest that the sampled line "con las terrioristas" is in reference to militant Islamists, or the 9/11 hi-jackers. I understand how you've taken it, and in your defense, that is entirely your choice. But I think it's a real stretch of the imagination to suggest that it's a tune made in support of terrorists. Whatever makes you happy I guess.

stevedmc
07-11-2013, 12:42 PM
There is no evidence to suggest that the sampled line "con las terrioristas" is in reference to militant Islamists, or the 9/11 hi-jackers.

So are you saying the lyric is okay since if it is refering to some other group of terrorists? I believe the line "we are with the terrorists" was a blanket statement that was referring to all forms of terrorism, which I would like to stand up and say, I am not with thank you. You and others can be with the terrorists if you want, but I will not join them.

NightFlyer
07-11-2013, 12:43 PM
Oh my lord, you people. I've never heard or seen the Harlem Shake craze, but I heard about it. After reading your comments, I decided to take a closer look at it. I've come to the conclusion you guys are a bit nuts. It's a sampled catching song, designed with beats and sounds to stick in the mind. There is no evidence to suggest that the sampled line "con las terrioristas" is in reference to militant Islamists, or the 9/11 hi-jackers. I understand how you've taken it, and in your defense, that is entirely your choice. But I think it's a real stretch of the imagination to suggest that it's a tune made in support of terrorists. Whatever makes you happy I guess.

Exactly how do you define the term "terrorists?"

From Merriam-Webster:

Terrorist - A person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.

Terrorism - The systematic use of terror, especially as a means of coercion.

Terror -
1 : a state of intense fear
2a : one that inspires fear : scourge
2b : a frightening aspect
2c : a cause of anxiety : worry
2d : an appalling person or thing; especially : brat
3 : reign of terror
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands

Being "with the terrorists," isn't something that I'd want to promote or be associated with - that's for damn sure! Any kind of terrorist - not just "militant Islamists, or the 9/11 hi-jackers."

But if it's just music and doesn't really mean anything, then I guess your playlist is full of white-power/pride hate music, radical Islamic jihadist music, Nazi victory/celebration anthems, gangster rap about gang-banging hoes and killing whitey, and the like - yes? If that's your thing, good for you - it's your right and I support your right to enjoy those things. But our thing is to respectfully decline celebrating such music while doing nothing to interfere with your right to enjoy it.

Cheers!

Farrar
07-11-2013, 01:02 PM
How about a little context? My Google-Fu reveals that the Dutch DJ simply wanted to add something that sounded strange on top of the beats and bassline he had created, so he sampled a weird-sounding reggaeton song.

The Harlem Shake dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_shake_%28dance%29) is different from the Harlem Shake song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Shake_%28song%29) which is different from the Harlem Shake meme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Shake_%28meme%29).


The song begins with a sample of a voice yelling "con los terroristas", a Spanish phrase which translates to "with the terrorists" in English. Although listeners assumed it was a female voice,[9] the sample was taken from the 2006 reggaeton song "Maldades" by Héctor Delgado, who often used the line as a refrain on his other songs.

From ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Entertainment/meet-hector-el-father-uncredited-voice-harlem-shake/story?id=18545681):


Baauer, né Harry Rodrigues, recently told the Daily Beast (which, as of this posting, explains "con los terroristas" as being "Columbian Spanish for 'with the terrorists.'") that he had the idea of "taking a Dutch house squeaky-high synth and putting it over a hip-hop track,' then adding a bunch of "weird shit" to it, including that voice. "The dude in the beginning I got somewhere off the Internet," he says, "I don't even know where, and the lion roar just makes no sense." ... As for Hector "El Father," it turns our he quit reggaeton and "bling" in 2008 to devote himself to God and has since become a preacher that goes by Hector Delgado.

The original song by Hector "El Father" is from the point of view of a character trying to get a girl to go out with him and "do evil things." The lyrics are mostly sexual and don't really make sense except in small phrases, but they do rhyme in Spanish. The sample in "Harlem Shake" is part of a single lyric from the song's refrain. The inclusion of the partial lyric in "Harlem Shake" is interpreted, according to Urban Dictionary, as "My crew and I are about to terrorize the floor with our dance moves." I can't find anything suggesting that the song, dance, video, or original whence the sample was taken has anything to do with actual terrorism. Neither Hector nor Baauer have any links to terrorism or terrorists.

There are many different ways to interpret songs, but I think you're way off base with the idea that three seconds of a dance video is instructing people to go and get chummy with violent political Islamists.

stevedmc
07-11-2013, 01:33 PM
Who would have ever thought the word terrorist would have a different meaning amongst different people. This sort of reminds me of a certain television personality (a cook lady) who's career has been destroyed because 15 years ago she used the same word that is comonly used in rap music today.

Farrar
07-11-2013, 02:15 PM
People interpret things differently, but applying a fictional connotation to something plainly innocuous is something else.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams, not all interpretations are equal -- some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well-supported in logic and argument than others.

I think I made it clear for anyone who was curious about the context of the phrase "con los teroristas" that the original intent of the lyric was not related to Islamic extremism, nor was its inclusion in a rap video years later. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, because most people in my experience never do that. If you choose to interpret the song "Harlem Shake" as promoting Islamic terrorism through music that Muslims are forbidden by their religion to listen to, then feel free to do so. It's your right.

NightFlyer
07-11-2013, 02:27 PM
Personally, I just don't care for the song - not my style. But I do like what they did with the concept in IFC's 'Out There,' with different lyrics:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pshVLjBxkSc

stevedmc
07-11-2013, 02:38 PM
I consider myself more open minded than most people, being that I see more of the planet in a year than most people will see in their lives. I think Mark Twain said something like, “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts." I'm not here to brag about how much of the planet I've seen, but what I am saying is I have learned to respect each other's differences.

For example, while I believe my faith to be correct, you won't see me cramming my beliefs down someone's throat. If someone asks me about my faith, then I'm certainly willing to share.

The same respect I talk about myself having for various cultures, I expressed at a tech event where they danced to this stuff. I politely said I didn't want to participate, and after being constantly hounded to participate, I politely said "I don't agree with the lyrics to this song and I would rather not participate". I was still pressured after that but people should have respected my desire to not participate. I only casually mentioned the terrorist lyric to one or two people, one of which I believe was Chris Burns.

Anyway, they went up, had their fun on camera, and I respected their wish to dance to something they knew nothing about. Terrorist lyric or not, it is sad how people will think something is the greatest thing in the world, yet they won't take the time to examine what they are so excited about. Songs come out all the time with foreign lyrics, and instead of investigating what the song is about, most people jump on the bandwaggon simply because it is popular and has a good beat.

There are plenty of rap songs out there that have a good beat yet they sing about pimping hoes and busting caps in someone. I suppose you could say the translation from black english venacular to regular english is lost in translation, but I would much rather not take my chances.

Farrar
07-11-2013, 02:47 PM
You're welcome.

NightFlyer
07-11-2013, 02:52 PM
Anyway, they went up, had their fun on camera, and I respected their wish to dance to something they knew nothing about. Terrorist lyric or not, it is sad how people will think something is the greatest thing in the world, yet they won't take the time to examine what they are so excited about. Songs come out all the time with foreign lyrics, and instead of investigating what the song is about, most people jump on the bandwaggon simply because it is popular and has a good beat.

There are plenty of rap songs out there that have a good beat yet they sing about pimping hoes and busting caps in someone. I suppose you could say the translation from black english venacular to regular english is lost in translation, but I would much rather not take my chances.

+1

The willingness of the masses to engage in something that they're completely ignorant and apathetic to is what boggles my mind the most. I guess it's because I prefer to actually use my brain to question and think...

Farrar
07-11-2013, 02:58 PM
One thing's for sure, everyone here seems to love irony.

stevedmc
07-11-2013, 03:06 PM
I love twinkies.


For the record, I still love Farrar regarless of his choice in music. James is a different story. I love him for his taste in fuel delivery.

Farrar
07-11-2013, 03:23 PM
I'm glad to know Steve and I can still be friends even though I listen to lots and lots of classical music and jazz. :)

Kevin
07-11-2013, 03:42 PM
I suppose you could say the translation from black english venacular to regular english is lost in translation, but I would much rather not take my chances.

Almost, the sample is from a Peurto Rican song, "terroristas" is supposedly a common Puerto Rican term for gangsters. Now sure, being "with the gangsters" isn't that great either, but I doubt it'd be as big of a controversy.

I understand if the ambiguity still bothers you, but I wanted to bring it up in hopes it would ease your comfort level with the situation. If it were me, I wouldn't make assumptions based on a literal translation. There's a reason why Google Translate can't perfectly translate between languages, and as a world traveler yourself, I'm sure you can understand how various cultural nuances exist.

thirdmanj
07-11-2013, 08:21 PM
Thanks for that Mr. Hudkins. Your Google-Fu is much appreciated.
This song, along with Gangnam Style, seem to once again confirm that people don't give a shit about the lyrics. It's all about the sound.

And Steve, you suck. ;-)

stevedmc
07-11-2013, 08:25 PM
And Steve, you suck. ;-)

Ron sucks.

thirdmanj
07-11-2013, 08:38 PM
...But if it's just music and doesn't really mean anything, then I guess your playlist is full of white-power/pride hate music, radical Islamic jihadist music, Nazi victory/celebration anthems, gangster rap about gang-banging hoes and killing whitey, and the like - yes?


This is completely ridiculous. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to be confrontational. Farrar explained it much more eloquently than I, but I never said or implied any of the above. I'll try and put it another way. Not all music is the same, and not all songs are meant to be taken in the same way.
Like we all seem to agree, it's entirely up to the listener and their choice. In this songs case, I don't think it really serves any other agenda than to be catchy, which it is. The data Farrar gathered seems to support that.

Cheers.

thirdmanj
07-11-2013, 08:39 PM
Ron sucks.

Heh heh. He's not that bad. What'd he do to you?

stevedmc
07-11-2013, 09:28 PM
Heh heh. He's not that bad. What'd he do to you?

Not a thing. I just miss him I guess.

Dracula
07-12-2013, 05:21 PM
For me, my dislike stems from the fact that "terrorist" is an acceptable enemy to the Armed Forces. You wouldn't expect a WWII vet to like a lyric that says "fly as a kamikaze" would you? Yet, that's also a slang term for a wingman who goes for the ugly friend.

Ultimately, it's an individual's prerogative to decide how they feel about a subject. I find the song stupid and the lyrics invoke enemies of world peace. I don't expect everyone to share my views, just to respect that I find it offensive.

thirdmanj
07-13-2013, 11:03 AM
I think some people just take themselves too seriously.

stevedmc
07-13-2013, 12:12 PM
There are some words you just aren't supposed to use in society out of respect for others, regardless of how it translates. For example, once when I was in Asia I kept hearing people say, "niggar, niggar" in their conversations. Do you think it would be acceptable for me, as a while person, to walk the streets of New Orleans using that word in an Asian conversation? I've got enough sense not to do that because I know it would get me in some serious trouble, despite what the translation might be.

thirdmanj
07-13-2013, 01:37 PM
There are some words you just aren't supposed to use in society out of respect for others, regardless of how it translates. For example, once when I was in Asia I kept hearing people say, "niggar, niggar" in their conversations. Do you think it would be acceptable for me, as a while person, to walk the streets of New Orleans using that word in an Asian conversation? I've got enough sense not to do that because I know it would get me in some serious trouble, despite what the translation might be.

Perhaps not. But it's not your culture, and norms are different.

NightFlyer
07-13-2013, 01:54 PM
This is completely ridiculous. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to be confrontational. Farrar explained it much more eloquently than I, but I never said or implied any of the above. I'll try and put it another way. Not all music is the same, and not all songs are meant to be taken in the same way.
Like we all seem to agree, it's entirely up to the listener and their choice. In this songs case, I don't think it really serves any other agenda than to be catchy, which it is. The data Farrar gathered seems to support that.

Cheers.

I admit, it is an extreme example - after all, what would a psychologist/psychiatrist have to say about someone who both celebrated 'the white man marching on' and in the next breath was praising 'the gang bang killing of cracker ass whitey by a ghetto thug?' :)

However, using your logic, that it's all about the catchiness of melodic harmonies where the lyrics are irrelevant, it's completely probable - correct?

And yes, we do agree that catchiness is subjective, and wholly individual/personal. I for one find the song to be annoying and immediately switch stations whenever I hear it.

I hope this explanation makes me cool with Mr. Peter Weller, as I'd hate to have him on my bad side ;)

BTW - I enjoyed you more as Wolf in 'Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone' (1983), than as Robocop.

For Farrar: The Spacehunter theme by Elmer Bernstein reminds me of Honor's early work, especially the score from 'Battle Beyond the Stars' (1980), although it also heavily borrows from Bernstein's own prior work, as well as Williams prior work.

You just don't get scores like this from Hollywood today, and I for one miss them!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjHyDtD2ThI

thirdmanj
07-13-2013, 02:35 PM
However, using your logic, that it's all about the catchiness of melodic harmonies where the lyrics are irrelevant, it's completely probable - correct?

Nope. Because I didn't propose that. All things being equal, yes, I see your point. But they're not. In the case of the Harlem Shake song, I think it's been pretty well established the "lyrics" were inconsequential, and the song was designed to meet the end of just being catchy. To compare the "lyrics" (and quote them because they don't really seem to be lyrics) of the Harlem Shake song to say a DMX rap song about "thug life" is silly. Both may be catchy, but the DMX song has a statement to make, and a very clear one (provided you can understand just what the hell they're saying) at that. DJs that are mix artists listen with different ears, and look for unique sound samples. Consider Moby's rendition of the James Bond theme, and the very specific bytes he pulled for inclusion in his mix. Sometimes it's not so much the words, but how they sound.

Anyway, took me a second, but you must be referring to my avatar pic. Not sure if you can tell, but that's a photoshopped pic of RoboCop, his visor has been tweaked to read DMC in the company's font.

deloreanmacmini
07-21-2013, 07:05 AM
Dracula,

As the host of the local DeLorean event that you chose not to go to because of our Harlem Shake Plans, I must say I'm a bit surprised. We didn't end up doing a Harlem Shake video, it would have been too much work and the fad is already long dead. So you missed an amazing day with great people because of one silly word in a song we didn't even play. If you had emailed me directly about your concern (instead of gossiping about it on a public forum) I would have told you that our interest in the Harlem Shake shoot was only a passing fancy, no one had any strong interest in doing it, and we would have gladly not done it if anyone had objected for any reason.

-Ryan

Dracula
07-21-2013, 12:14 PM
Your reply here makes light of my issues and seems patronizing;


So you missed an amazing day with great people because of one silly word in a song we didn't even play.

That says, to me, that you don't respect that I dislike that song and take a strong personal reservation to it due to personal ethics and you have the opinion that I'm over-reacting.

I chose not to confront you about it and not put myself in a situation where one of the "featured events" was something that I find offensive. It's no different, to me, than if you had said that there would be a flag-burning at the event.

thirdmanj
07-21-2013, 12:23 PM
Your reply here makes light of my issues and seems patronizing;



That says, to me, that you don't respect that I dislike that song and take a strong personal reservation to it due to personal ethics and you have the opinion that I'm over-reacting.

I chose not to confront you about it and not put myself in a situation where one of the "featured events" was something that I find offensive. It's no different, to me, than if you had said that there would be a flag-burning at the event.

I don't know know about him, but I think you're (were) overreacting and being a bit melodramatic about it. But hey that's me. This is why you feel "belittled", Chad. Some people (are perceived to) just take themselves too seriously. Meh, to each his own, if being the outcast makes you happy, go for it, you seem to feed off it. Not that I'm advocating mass conformity per se... Cause I'm not, but theirs a fine line between being unique and different an being just plain fuckin' weird.

Dracula
07-21-2013, 12:59 PM
You may feel that I was over-reacting, but my frame of mind is that I find it offensive. I don't expect them to change their plans to accommodate to me, instead I chose not to put myself in that situation. If you don't like a store's policies, you shop somewhere else; instead of going there and expressing my disinterest with their activity of choice, I didn't attend with a negative attitude or create awkward tension.

thirdmanj
07-21-2013, 01:10 PM
You may feel that I was over-reacting, but my frame of mind is that I find it offensive. I don't expect them to change their plans to accommodate to me, instead I chose not to put myself in that situation. If you don't like a store's policies, you shop somewhere else; instead of going there and expressing my disinterest with their activity of choice, I didn't attend with a negative attitude or create awkward tension.

Yuppers. I agree.

NightFlyer
07-21-2013, 01:51 PM
Harlem Shake sucks!

dvonk
07-21-2013, 03:09 PM
so if i ever go to Harlem some day, does anyone know of an ice cream shop where i can get a good milkshake?

i do like shakes--vanilla are my favorite.

Sniglet10812
07-21-2013, 03:42 PM
LOL@dvonk

(message too short ???)

stevedmc
07-21-2013, 05:01 PM
It's no different, to me, than if you had said that there would be a flag-burning at the event.

Amen.

(Stupid forum wants me to type at least 10 letters to respond. DMCToday sucks).